Beginning of the end for suburban NRL stadiums?

[Rob]

I'd be amazed if GWS actually gave a sh*t. More likely it's along the lines of the Birchgrove Oval debacle where they just paint the AFL as the bad guy to try and mobilise support even though they had zero to do with it.

[dibo]

AFL had nothing to do with AFL lying to council about their rego numbers?

A novel theory.

[Rob]

AFL had nothing to do with AFL lying to council about their rego numbers?

A novel theory.

Nope. AFL Sydney just put in a request for ground space. Didn't care where it was (other than being in the local area). Came directly from the horses mouth when someone actually asked Tom Harley about it. They were used by the local soccer authorities to stir up local rugby league authorities about trying to steal Birchgrove Oval. Media loved it, writing about this war that only existed in the minds of a few rugby league administrators.

In the end, soccer got what they wanted (more slots on Birchgrove as well as a new ground not far away), Aussie rules got what they wanted (more slots on the new ground), rugby league lost space. Good use of politics I guess.

Just shows you how paranoid some are when it comes to code wars in Sydney. Hard to believe you'd see that anywhere else in the country. Strange place.

[dibo]

Am mates with the mayor. AFL numbers were rubbery.

[Timbo]

End to suburban ground funding
Sunday 13th July 2014 | More News

The New South Wales state government says it’ll no longer invest in suburban NRL venues and instead poor money into major stadiums such as ANZ Stadium and Allianz Stadium.

Sports Minister Stuart Ayres said the government would no longer invest in the district venues where rugby league has been played for more than a century. Instead, money would be poured into major upgrades at Allianz and ANZ stadiums, including a ­retractable roof over the Homebush Olympic venue.

Mr Ayres insisted all future government spending would be restricted to the bigger facilities, ANZ and Allianz, plus a third, as yet undetermined, venue in Sydney’s west.

That puts the future of current suburban NRL venues at risk including Brookvale Oval, Leichhardt Oval, Jubilee Oval and Shark Park.

Parramatta Stadium in Sydney’s west is due for a minor redevelopment in the near future with $29 million of federal and state money committed which will see capacity increase by just 4,000 seats.

It’s unknown where Sydney’s third major stadium will be located – it may be a major upgrade of Parramatta Stadium or a new venue elsewhere.

The move from suburban to major venues is similar to what occurred in Melbourne during the 1980’s and ‘90’s with AFL clubs abandoning venues such as Victoria Park, Windy Hill, Western Oval and Punt Road Oval in favour of the MCG and Etihad Stadium.

The majority of those grounds now serve as training and administration bases and it appears that’s what the future holds for Sydney suburban grounds also.

The move in Melbourne has seen AFL grounds skyrocket with overall attendance averaging around 32,500 while the NRL is currently averaging just over 16,000 this season.

Determining if moving games from traditional venues to major stadiums in Sydney will dramatically boost attendances remains to be seen.

http://www.austadiums.com/news/news.php?id=546

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Interesting, and probably overdue. Can they do it properly, that's the question.

Either way, the Sharks and Eagles are buggered by this plan.

[dibo]

The big grounds need to be better though.

SFS is growing old disgracefully and needs serious work on the roof, the seating bowl, the amenities, access and egress...

Homebush has amazing amenities (by comparison to almost any ground) but it's still too f***ing big and the sightlines from behind either goal line are awful for any rectangular code. It also needs more variety of pre-match and post-match entertainment to encourage people to make a day of their trip.

[yob]

The move in Melbourne has seen AFL grounds skyrocket with overall attendance averaging around 32,500 while the NRL is currently averaging just over 16,000 this season.

Good grief. Attributing nation wide attendance gains to the MCG and Docklands.

What actually caused the 12% year on year jump from an average of 29637 to 33197 was replacing Fitzroy with Port Adelaide in 1997.

What's also proving a real winner for crowds in Melbourne is relocating the sh*t games nobody wants to Launceston, Hobart, Cairns, Darwin, Alice Springs, Canberra and New Zealand.

[Timbo]

It's hard to see Cronulla and Manly surviving as they are with this model. Assuming that they do build a new stadium in the west, I'm going to say for arguments sake at Blacktown as that's where the transport links make sense, these are the two clubs that completely lose out. I'm also assuming that the minimum standard they'd build Blacktown to would be that of AAMI Park, but probably without the wanky roof to save on costs.

The Dogs, Rabbitohs and Roosters have already rationalized, the Tigers are halfway there, and if a new stadium was built at Blacktown they could easily move their western suburbs games their and play the other half at Allianz to appease the old Balmain fans. The Dragons have two options, either move half their games to Allianz - as there's clear evidence that their fans will travel - or move full time to Woolongong which will not be affected by this as it's a regional facility and will continue to get upgrades.

Parramatta is a bit of a special case as they already have a decent all-seater which has upgrades in the pipeline. They could continue to play there for the intermediate term with no dramas, shifting the odd big game to ANZ against local rivals like the Dogs or Panthers. As long as Parramatta City Council continues to maintain it they'll be fine there for another decade or two.

The non-league users will not be affected at all. The Waratahs will remain at Allianz, as will Sydney FC. The Wanderers could continue with the Eels out of an upgraded Parramatta, or move to the new Blacktown stadium if their crowd sizes demand it.

But what of the Sharks and Eagles? The Sharks own their own ground, which is good, but with no money coming in for upgrades how long can it be a viable option? Despite its stated capacity it's bursting at the seams when about 18,000 are in and the two main stands are already showing their age. The last few upgrades have really just been band-aid solutions. Sutherland Shire Council, even if they were willing to help out, couldn't possibly help the Sharks keep up with how much it would cost. And the Sharks own financial predicament is well known, they won't be able to do much themselves.

The Eagles are even more screwed. Brookvale is nowhere near NRL standard as it stands and it's only the history of the club and lack of options which allows them to keep using it. Barely any undercover seats, it becomes a mudpit when it rains - both on the field and the hill - and the transport links are atrocious. It's almost a shame they got the funding for lights a few years ago - that would have forced their hand by now.

This is coupled by the fact that the fans of both clubs - but especially Manly - are notoriously bad travelers, even for big games. There was that farcical situation a few years ago where they only got 16,000 to a week 2 finals match at Allianz and then rather than admit how lazy their fans are turned around and said that the NRL should let them play all their final matches at Brookvale as their fans don't like going across the bridge. The Sharks fans are better, but not by much.

If the following team/ground lineups happen:

Refurbished Allianz - Roosters, Dragons (half), Wests (half). (With the Waratahs and Sydney FC).
Refurbished ANZ - Souths, Canterbury.
New Blacktown - Penrith, Wests (half).
Refurbished Parra - Parramatta. (With the Wanderers).

Should this lead to the hoped for bump in crowds, those two clubs will not be able to exist in their current state. The NRL eventually won't stand for it but how long will they be able to continue to attract decent players if they're playing out of suburban rubbish tips like Endeavor and Brookvale? Even the regional clubs like the Raiders and Cowboys are expecting new 30,000 seaters in the not too distant future.

I think one of the main reasons they've been able to continue playing at grounds like Endeavor and Brookvale is because they exist in a world which also has Penrith, Campbelltown, Kogarah and Townsville. When they're gone, those two grounds will stick out like sore thumbs.

[Simmo79]

The root problem is that transport links in Sydney are slow and inefficient. Distances are similar to Melbourne but the time investment it takes to travel between districts and across town is always huge, no matter what time of day or day of the week. Because of that, Sydney people tend to stick to their districts for most things, including sport.

The Government's trying to fit a square peg in a round hole with this strategy. You can't have an effective centralised stadium strategy when you don't have a centralised city to fit it over. I get why they're doing it. Rationalisation of spending makes sense, but how they're achieving it doesn't really work. But nothing leaps out as an alternative model either. It's just another of those policy areas where something has to be done but no matter what you do, you'll fail.

[yob]

Looks to me we have a problem of local sporting clubs not succeeding as national brands, and it's being dressed up as a stadium/infrastructure issue.

Establish a viable two division structure, and if the supporters want to stay in the suburbs then let them, free of scorn and judgement.

[Boba Fett]

You can't have an effective centralised stadium strategy when you don't have a centralised city to fit it over.

Yes, this would seem to be the case. With the one proviso that some fans don't seem to mind travelling to a decent stadium to support their team (e.g. Souths), whereas others flat out refuse to (e.g. Manly).

[dibo]

You can't have an effective centralised stadium strategy when you don't have a centralised city to fit it over.

Yes, this would seem to be the case. With the one proviso that some fans don't seem to mind travelling to a decent stadium to support their team (e.g. Souths), whereas others flat out refuse to (e.g. Manly).

That's a diaspora issue as well - a lot of people whose families traditionally supported Souths have been priced out of the area, whereas that's not true of people from Manly, Cronulla, St George, Canterbury, etc.

[gyfox]

You can't have an effective centralised stadium strategy when you don't have a centralised city to fit it over.

Yes, this would seem to be the case. With the one proviso that some fans don't seem to mind travelling to a decent stadium to support their team (e.g. Souths), whereas others flat out refuse to (e.g. Manly).

That's a diaspora issue as well - a lot of people whose families traditionally supported Souths have been priced out of the area, whereas that's not true of people from Manly, Cronulla, St George, Canterbury, etc.

This article from March 2013 provides some numbers to back up the diaspora.

only 20 per cent of Bunnies fans reside locally.

According to statistics, roughly 40 per cent of Souths supporters hail from western Sydney, and 36 per cent from somewhere over the Blue Mountains.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/re ... 6598590929

[Boba Fett]

This article from March 2013 provides some numbers to back up the diaspora.

only 20 per cent of Bunnies fans reside locally.

According to statistics, roughly 40 per cent of Souths supporters hail from western Sydney, and 36 per cent from somewhere over the Blue Mountains.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/re ... 6598590929

The info about the growth in revenue from members from $300k to $6m in the last five years says the Bunnies have finally thought about marketing the club seriously. In stark contrast to many other NRL teams. It also proves the theory that you don't have to represent a geographic location to be successful.

[gyfox]

Memberships is a fairly recent phenomenon for NRL but they have taken it to another level this season with an official competition around membership growth.

http://membership.nrl.com/membershiprace