Proposed WACA Redevelopment

[Egan]

Check the stadium task force report, East Perth or Burswood options.

The WACA looks like a good position on a map, but not really in reality because there's no public transport and no parking.

If Perth noobs knew how to use buses it is fine. A ton of buses going to the ground. The real mistake was in stopping the tram route that used to run along Hay Street that had its terminus at the WACA...

[Rob]

Check the stadium task force report, East Perth or Burswood options.

The WACA looks like a good position on a map, but not really in reality because there's no public transport and no parking.

If Perth noobs knew how to use buses it is fine. A ton of buses going to the ground.

Nah, you simply can't move 20,000 people in buses. Rail is the only way to move a large number of people very quickly.

No rail and limited parking = nightmare for any sizable crowd.

The real mistake was in stopping the tram route that used to run along Hay Street that had its terminus at the WACA...

When was that, the 30's?

[beastjim]

Nah, you simply can't move 20,000 people in buses. Rail is the only way to move a large number of people very quickly.

No rail and limited parking = nightmare for any sizable crowd.

Your just not trying hard enough. Gabba with 42,000 capacity only really has buses, taxi's and on street parking to cater for everyone. WACA would be closer to the actual CBD as well then the Gabba is. Then again the Gabba has a Busway to its door, but nothing that couldn't be achieved in Perth with some lane painting. Suncorp isn't in too much of a better boat either however the train stations are close enough with dedicated walkways to not be too much of an issue.

[Egan]

Your just not trying hard enough. Gabba with 42,000 capacity only really has buses, taxi's and on street parking to cater for everyone.

Inner city roads around the WACA can not handle anywhere near the amount of traffic that the Gabba can. Its not just the immediate vicinity, its getting them all out of the area. Riverside Drive clogs up, Causeway clogs up. Those going through the backstreets clog up.

Around the 1940's...will be in an essay I did on it somewhere. But light rail would have made it a viable location. Where it is presently just can not cope with a 42,000 seat ground. Its location close to the city is the hindrance. On roads that where never designed to cater for 80-90% of the crowd for the cricket using private transport.

There are buses leaving to the WACA every 2-3mins during weekdays.

[beastjim]

On roads that where never designed to cater for 80-90% of the crowd for the cricket using private transport.

Get em out of the car and onto the bus, once again look how we are doing it up here in Queensland at either Suncorp, Skilled or the Gabba. Free Public Transport with your ticket and put on plenty of shuttle services including a loop through the city to the closest train station. Don't try to cater for the car, we don't do the Boot BBQ stuff of American Football, so why bother supplying car parking for anyone but the players, officials and a handful of wheelchairs. It's close position to the CBD is an advantage, it gives people choice and options on how to get to the game and provides a great entertainment hub for before and after game celebrations/commiserations. Make bus only lanes for event days to help move people more quickly and easier, general drivers will soon learn to avoid the ground on game days.

[Rob]

Get em out of the car and onto the bus, once again look how we are doing it up here in Queensland at either Suncorp, Skilled or the Gabba.

Why? Your crowds suck. Your stadiums are hardly ever full.

Free Public Transport with your ticket and put on plenty of shuttle services including a loop through the city to the closest train station.

That's done anyway.

[beastjim]

Get em out of the car and onto the bus, once again look how we are doing it up here in Queensland at either Suncorp, Skilled or the Gabba.

Why? Your crowds suck. Your stadiums are hardly ever full.

What does crowd size have to do with it? Seriously it doesn't matter if your moving 8,000 or 52,000 same principles apply. Certainly all that changes is the frequency/number of special services.

Free Public Transport with your ticket and put on plenty of shuttle services including a loop through the city to the closest train station.

That's done anyway.

Well then I hardly see what the issue is then. I see on the TransPerth Website that they manage to run a decent bus service from a few different locations to Subiaco. Just extend the courtesy to the WACA as well and move towards a much larger share for Public Transport to the game. Bottom line is that buses can easily handle crowds in excess of the planned capacity of the WACA upgrade.

[Rob]

Get em out of the car and onto the bus, once again look how we are doing it up here in Queensland at either Suncorp, Skilled or the Gabba.

Why? Your crowds suck. Your stadiums are hardly ever full.

What does crowd size have to do with it? Seriously it doesn't matter if your moving 8,000 or 52,000 same principles apply. Certainly all that changes is the frequency/number of special services.

Because that may be indicative of the access of the stadium.

If the only option people have to get to a stadium is public transport, people simply won't show up in the same numbers.

People confuse the concept of sport (and any other major event) as being somehow demand inelastic. Imagine if you build a shopping centre and provide no parking, but put a bus station in. Patronage would be poor, because a lot of people want the option of driving their car.

Well then I hardly see what the issue is then. I see on the TransPerth Website that they manage to run a decent bus service from a few different locations to Subiaco. Just extend the courtesy to the WACA as well and move towards a much larger share for Public Transport to the game. Bottom line is that buses can easily handle crowds in excess of the planned capacity of the WACA upgrade.

Not everyone wants to catch public transport. Particularly buses, which are irregular at times that sporting events are generally on (i.e the weekend). The best you can do is link to big carparks, but 20,000 people on buses is virtually impossible. Subiaco, for instance, get about 900 people per game travelling there on buses, and that's with special services from all over Perth. Around 2%. They're just not capable of moving large numbers of people very quickly.

Make it hard for people to go to a sporting event, and a lot simply won't go. That's why ideally you need to provide all options. Road access, parking, rail, buses. Even ferries if appropriate. You certainly don't deliberately block off people that choose to take their cars and demand they get on a bus. That's lunacy, and can only lead to empty seats.

Part of the reason the MCG and Telstra Dome is so successful is that strategy. And why city stadiums are perfect, as the times that events are on are mostly off peak, when city carparks used for workers duing the week can be used by stadium goers on the weekend.

[broncos]

It sounds to me by your post that you West Australians just don't know how to use public transport. I've been to the WACA, its so close to the CBD. There should be a million modes of transport in at least getting to the city if anything else. Is parking really cheap in Perth, because its sure not worth paying the money here when you can simply catch a bus or train.

Brisbane has proven that you can transport a large no. of people via just public transport, whether you believe our crowds suck or not. When theres sell out games at Suncorp, the system works extremely well. No delays, regular buses etc. Sporting events may be elastic, but I still don't see the removal of parking as a major cause of that elasticity.

[Egan]

It sounds to me by your post that you West Australians just don't know how to use public transport. I've been to the WACA, its so close to the CBD. There should be a million modes of transport in at least getting to the city if anything else. Is parking really cheap in Perth, because its sure not worth paying the money here when you can simply catch a bus or train.

Brisbane has proven that you can transport a large no. of people via just public transport, whether you believe our crowds suck or not. When theres sell out games at Suncorp, the system works extremely well. No delays, regular buses etc. Sporting events may be inelastic, but I still don't see the removal of parking as a major cause of that inelasticity.

Bullseye...Transperth runs plenty of buses for Warriors and Test, One Day Internationals. Perth noobs are the dumbest noobs in Australia in regards to Public transport. They have the worlds simplest public transport to navigate. They just will not use it if it is not a train...snubbery of the highest order. There is a cultural cringe against buses...being for dole bludgers and lowlifes. (Western Suburbs, Mandurah, Rockingham...Murdoch, inner east has a larger embracement of public transport. Regional differences in how PT is viewed as.

People confuse the concept of sport (and any other major event) as being somehow demand inelastic. Imagine if you build a shopping centre and provide no parking, but put a bus station in. Patronage would be poor, because a lot of people want the option of driving their car.

Robina makes this point null and void. Try finding one car park spot...crowds have been decent. Its the culture around the problem.

I've been to the WACA, its so close to the CBD. There should be a million modes of transport in at least getting to the city if anything else. Is parking really cheap in Perth, because its sure not worth paying the money here when you can simply catch a bus or train.

There is, the main tourist cats, have two routes that are within 100 metres. Most buses heading to the south eastern and eastern suburbs go to the WACA. Buses from Fremantle, Claremont...It is a major layover region.

Car Parking is $5, noobs get parking fines. But the sporting market place is extremely different to the rest of the country. Money does not alter demand for car parking or a top match. Noobs are reluctant to embrace buses (however growth has grown to 39% over the last 5 years, Perth still has one of the lowest public transport usages in the country and the highest private car ownership in the country).

The big problem is the traffic modules and the inner city streets, its a 15 minute walk from Forrest Place the heart of Perth. But because of what Perth is, it is a shocking location for a 60,000 seat stadium.

Like Daylight Savings, Shopping Hours referendum, it takes A LOT of effort to change the traditional ways of a Sandgroper. The Labor government where committed to this, they realised they have to make Public Transport even better than the rest of the country, just to catch up.

Which is why the Mandurah Railway was a brilliant project in delivering public transport to the city. The problem has been is that everyone wants to drive to the Train Station...nobody is taking the bus to the train station

So the cycles go on, however you have pockets of embracements such as the inner south east. The northern line and Midland line are already at full capacity during peak hours. Which is why they have 77 rail cars on order.

The future of public transport in Perth is quick, efficient rail systems. Because they are far more fussier than your Brisbane passanger, who can cope with a train every 30 mins from the Gold coast. Compared to every 10 mins during peak time on the Mandurah line.

[Egan]

Also if you are a local you understand that the WACA and Gloucester Park are going to be blended into the East Perth Redevelopment that has been ongoing to regenerate that region.

A 60,000 seat stadium is not actually ideal for the high density residential that has been built around the WACA. The East Perth site is far more suited to this.

[Egan]

No rail and limited parking = nightmare for any sizable crowd.

Not actually the case, Claisebrook train/McIver train is 15 minutes walk away. People prefer to use the buses as it gets them right to the door, but I know many who take the train because they don't use the bus.

[Rob]

It sounds to me by your post that you West Australians just don't know how to use public transport. I've been to the WACA, its so close to the CBD. There should be a million modes of transport in at least getting to the city if anything else. Is parking really cheap in Perth, because its sure not worth paying the money here when you can simply catch a bus or train.

Personally, when I go to a game at Subi, I park on the street for free. A bit of a walk, probably around 10 minutes, but the convenience of the car far exceeds the inconvenience of walking 15 minutes to the nearest train station and jumping on a train, followed by the crush at West Leederville after the game.
So just clarifying that - I am quite capable of catching public transport, but prefer to take my car. I can't see the problem. But then again, Subiaco is pretty much sold out every week - not really a problem you get in Brisbane to just about any event.

Brisbane has proven that you can transport a large no. of people via just public transport, whether you believe our crowds suck or not. When theres sell out games at Suncorp, the system works extremely well. No delays, regular buses etc. Sporting events may be elastic, but I still don't see the removal of parking as a major cause of that elasticity.

It's not whether I believe your crowds suck - compared to Perth crowds they do. Even bloody rugby union gets bigger crowds here, and hardly anyone gives a rats ass about rugby union.

Do you consider lack of access to your stadiums a contributing factor to your sucky crowds? It's sure as hell not the quality of your stadiums, because Subiaco is built from cow turds mixed with dog turds. You actually get governments investing in stadiums over there.

[Egan]

Do you consider lack of access to your stadiums a contributing factor to your sucky crowds?

suncorp stadium has actually had an increase in public transport usage.

robina has solid crowds nearly every week. with as much car parking as east freo oval.

[sevans]

Hi everyone. new to austadiums. I've been reading a bit about your opinions on public transport and that. I've been to Suncorp stadium a couple of times when it was near capacity (50 000) which is much greater then what you get to subi. and i must say that the way the ground empties and people leave the ground is very efficeint. yes half the crowd does head off to caxton street wich is closed off, but there is no room for cars, so eerybody catches buses or trains. there is a bus station below the ground which has special transfers right around the city. and there are plenty of trains leaving milton going into the city and out. arriving to the ground is no problem as people seem to just catch the train at their own time, or take the ten minute walk from the city.

i have to say though i think it has a lot to do with the culture of attending games in queensland and nsw. ive been to the mcg, and was amazed by the amount of people who drove cars. i just thought y wouldnt u take a tram or train. but up here in queensland we only take public transport, taking ur car seems useless really.

Although we may have some lower crowds then you in perth, we have catered for 52 000 events quite well.

Even bloody rugby union gets bigger crowds here, and hardly anyone gives a rats ass about rugby union.

sorry but i have to correct you there. most of our rugby matches are sell outs. so generally we get 50 000 +.