Proposed WACA Redevelopment

[sevans]

The Broncos average around 30 000 at Suncorp stadium, this is nearly double that of the NRLs average. Also when the Broncos played at the then known ANZ stadium I think we averaged around 20 000 - 25 000. Now I am pretty sure that that represents and increase of around 5 000 - 10 000 since the move to the new Suncorp Stadium.

The Broncos used to average in the mid 40'000's at QE2 before the SL War. Using the warped logic of some people here I guess you could say that they've lost 10'000 fans since moving to the new LP.

I should add that since moving to the redeveloped Lang Park their average has increased every season, which tends to indicate that people like the stadium and don't mind using PT to get there.

Yeh I wasn't really a fan of RL until after the SL era, so can't really comment on crowds then. However we could argue all day about crowds increacing and decreasing over time and come to no real outcome.

All I'm going to say on the issue os PT is that TO ME it is far easier to either walk or catch a train to the football then drive a car and get cought up in traffic etc etc, wherever I go to watch the footy I will always use PT or walk. It helps the environment (although I guess what would help it more is by not even having the game in the first place and thus not using electricity and so on... but we all like to think we are helping in some way don't we), it's easer, no traffic, quicker, cheaper (included in ticket) and is just my PREFERED option.

[Rob]

I guess we differ in our interpretation of what is a good crowd. For a city bigger than Perth, with far better stadium facilities, the Broncos and Lions draw relatively poorly.

I was just posing the question as to whether that has much to do with how hard their respective grounds are to get to.

The Broncos average around 30 000 at Suncorp stadium, this is nearly double that of the NRLs average.

Pfft, fly racing gets close to the NRL average crowd.

Also when the Broncos played at the then known ANZ stadium I think we averaged around 20 000 - 25 000. Now I am pretty sure that that represents and increase of around 5 000 - 10 000 since the move to the new Suncorp Stadium. ANZ had plenty of busways, however it had ample parking for people who wanted to bring their car. Thus your point about having no parking will only decrease crowds is disproven.

I never made that point. What I said was that you need a balance to provide all people options to get to a game. Building a stadium with little public transport is as ridiculous as building one with no parking.

Didn't ANZ get some huge crowds in the 90's anyway? With a running track around it? I've never been there, but it looked like a pretty crappy stadium on TV.

The fact that we can still attract sell out crowds, which we do around 10 times a year (estimate)

A poor one. Maybe 6-8, and that's in a good year with NRL finals, 2 SoO games, a good Wallabies test and a couple of one off sporting events.

, says that crowds are not detered by lack of parking. The thing that stands in Suncorps favour is that it is about a ten minute walk to the main city, or you can walk to Milton (train staion) and catch the train t Roma Street or other surrounding stations where you may have parked your car. There are two levels (I believe) of bus lanes under the stadium where buses leave by the dozen every minute or so.

It's like building a shopping centre with no carpark.

A stadium, believe it or not, is not a shopping centre. People go to the game to be entertained. Many people drive their car to a nearby trainstation and then catch the tran to the game. Yes building a shopping centre without car parks would be rediculous, but Suncorp has proven that you can have a stadium without carparks. Since moving to this new stadium our crowds have increased, not decreased.

Premiership? Super League wearing off? A better stadium with better spectator facilites? Closer to the city?

Bottom line is that despite what seems to be a healthy interest in sport, Brisbane people don't show up in the same numbers. Their stadiums rarely sell out, and the week to week attendance pattern is poor compared to other Australian cities (except Sydney). Why is this?

[sevans]

I guess we differ in our interpretation of what is a good crowd. For a city bigger than Perth, with far better stadium facilities, the Broncos and Lions draw relatively poorly.

I was just posing the question as to whether that has much to do with how hard their respective grounds are to get to.

The Broncos average around 30 000 at Suncorp stadium, this is nearly double that of the NRLs average.

Pfft, fly racing gets close to the NRL average crowd.

Also when the Broncos played at the then known ANZ stadium I think we averaged around 20 000 - 25 000. Now I am pretty sure that that represents and increase of around 5 000 - 10 000 since the move to the new Suncorp Stadium. ANZ had plenty of busways, however it had ample parking for people who wanted to bring their car. Thus your point about having no parking will only decrease crowds is disproven.

I never made that point. What I said was that you need a balance to provide all people options to get to a game. Building a stadium with little public transport is as ridiculous as building one with no parking.

Didn't ANZ get some huge crowds in the 90's anyway? With a running track around it? I've never been there, but it looked like a pretty crappy stadium on TV.

The fact that we can still attract sell out crowds, which we do around 10 times a year (estimate)

A poor one. Maybe 6-8, and that's in a good year with NRL finals, 2 SoO games, a good Wallabies test and a couple of one off sporting events.

, says that crowds are not detered by lack of parking. The thing that stands in Suncorps favour is that it is about a ten minute walk to the main city, or you can walk to Milton (train staion) and catch the train t Roma Street or other surrounding stations where you may have parked your car. There are two levels (I believe) of bus lanes under the stadium where buses leave by the dozen every minute or so.

It's like building a shopping centre with no carpark.

A stadium, believe it or not, is not a shopping centre. People go to the game to be entertained. Many people drive their car to a nearby trainstation and then catch the tran to the game. Yes building a shopping centre without car parks would be rediculous, but Suncorp has proven that you can have a stadium without carparks. Since moving to this new stadium our crowds have increased, not decreased.

Premiership? Super League wearing off? A better stadium with better spectator facilites? Closer to the city?

Bottom line is that despite what seems to be a healthy interest in sport, Brisbane people don't show up in the same numbers. Their stadiums rarely sell out, and the week to week attendance pattern is poor compared to other Australian cities (except Sydney). Why is this?

Ok Rob here are some facts:

2008 Season Attandences
Freo - 394 643 (Avg. 35 877)
WCE - 414 188 (Avg. 37 653)
Broncos - 451 556 (Avg. 34 735)

There you have it, in 2008 the Broncos got more people through their gates then did Freo and WCE. Yes our average attendence is slightly lower (BY A WHOLE TWO OR THREE THOUSAND ) now if your going to start telling me that we attract poor crowds then maybe you should look at the facts first. The Broncos attract BY FAR the most people then ANY OTHER NRL team. The tradition of NRL is not like that of AFL where people by membership and then are entitled to turn up to every game, we hinge on a culture of walk up attandence, people buying one off tickets to a game. Yes there are season tickets, but it is not the tradition or culture of that of the AFL. Also try attracting people to matches against low drawing teams like Canberra, Panthers, Tigers, Souths, Para and so on. I can garrauntee you that nearly every single Broncs COwboys and Broncs Titans (baring the one this year which drew only 39 000) will attract near sell out crowds.

Your idea of our crows being 'surposedly' lower then yours due to no public transport is therefore wrong. Our culture of attending sports events is unlike yours. We catch public transport or walk. This doesn't stop us going, in fact I believe the opposite, if you only had the option to drive to the game then I could almost garauntee you that the attendence will drop. If you don't believe me then why don't you come over here and try it for yourself.

The point I am trying to make is that if the right approach is taken to advertising taking public transport then people will do tjust that, and it will not affect your attendence. We had the same problem here a few years back when the Broncos first moved back to Lang Park. People wanted to drive, however what the council did was block off all streets around the stadium during games and therefore nobody could park there. Soon people got the message and immediately started parking their car at the Transit Centre and catching a train from Roma Street to Milton, or at other places where there is sufficient parking space. Like last time I went to a game we paked out car in the carpark of Toowong Shopping Centre and then caught the train straight to Milton. Other times I have cought the train right out to Wellington Point, depends where I am staying.

Quite frankly I'm over this discussion, and find myself pretty much just repeatin myself oer and over again, myself. So this is the last thing I am going to say on the issue. Catching public transport to the football is a part of the culture of attending football in Queensland. It has not affected our attendences one bit, in fact our attendences are indeed rising. By having a good public transport system in place at the ground will encourage people to take PT. I don't care what you say, I've experienced both, driving to the game, and PT to the game and I must say I much prefer public transport any day.

Now back to the topic of this thread. I rather like the design of the new WACA ground. I really couldn't think of anything better then sitting in air conditioned comfort on a hot day watching the cricket right outside my window. Although I am not sure what the view would be like from the upper levels. I imagine your neck would be sore by the end of the day. Do you know if these apartments are going to be permanent living? or short term lease? It would be good to have a development right outside the ground as well, just duck out at lunch to grab a bite to eat and then straight back in for the second session. On first impressions I would give the ground an initial thumbs Up.

[Egan]

What hasn't been mentioned though is that the Qld Government had no choice but to ban parking around Suncorp. Paddington (where Suncorp is located) is one of the wealthiest suburbs in Brisbane and naturally the people were against the whole idea of redevelopment in the first place. The Paddingtonites were trying to block the redevelopment mainly because they thought the noise would be too loud and a bit of congestion would ruin their property values. As a result, the government had no choice but to ban parking around the stadium.

Shows you how dominant football is in WA. Because Subiaco Oval is in a very wealthy area as well.

Subiaco Council banning parking



I agree, shouldn't force people to use Public Transport. But build venues so it is hard, so they have no option...reduces congestion on streets after the game.

Congestion is something that fans can reduce if they choose to.

[Rob]

[Ok Rob here are some facts:

2008 Season Attandences
Freo - 394 643 (Avg. 35 877)
WCE - 414 188 (Avg. 37 653)
Broncos - 451 556 (Avg. 34 735)

There you have it, in 2008 the Broncos got more people through their gates then did Freo and WCE. Yes our average attendence is slightly lower (BY A WHOLE TWO OR THREE THOUSAND ) now if your going to start telling me that we attract poor crowds then maybe you should look at the facts first.

Dude, just about all of those games were sellouts. All but 2 in fact. People that wanted to buy tickets couldn't, because there were no more on sale. That's despite both clubs having utterly horrendous seasons, finishing 2nd last and 3rd last.
How many games did the Broncos sell out? 1 or 2?

The Broncos attract BY FAR the most people then ANY OTHER NRL team. The tradition of NRL is not like that of AFL where people by membership and then are entitled to turn up to every game, we hinge on a culture of walk up attandence, people buying one off tickets to a game. Yes there are season tickets, but it is not the tradition or culture of that of the AFL. Also try attracting people to matches against low drawing teams like Canberra, Panthers, Tigers, Souths, Para and so on. I can garrauntee you that nearly every single Broncs COwboys and Broncs Titans (baring the one this year which drew only 39 000) will attract near sell out crowds.

Actually i'd more suggest that it's a Sydney thing than an NRL thing. Are you suggesting it's the game's fault that people don't show up? You have the facilities, certainly both the Gabba and Suncorp are 5 times better than the dung heap we have over here.

BTW, it's a bit silly guaranteeing 2 events a year will sellout, then ruling out one of them.

Your idea of our crows being 'surposedly' lower then yours due to no public transport is therefore wrong.

Based on what? Misleading 'facts'?

Our culture of attending sports events is unlike yours. We catch public transport or walk. This doesn't stop us going, in fact I believe the opposite, if you only had the option to drive to the game then I could almost garauntee you that the attendence will drop. If you don't believe me then why don't you come over here and try it for yourself.

Try what? Building a stadium with better access?

Don't take this personally, but I might keep my billion dollars and spend it on better things than proving a point on Austadiums.

The point I am trying to make is that if the right approach is taken to advertising taking public transport then people will do tjust that, and it will not affect your attendence. We had the same problem here a few years back when the Broncos first moved back to Lang Park. People wanted to drive, however what the council did was block off all streets around the stadium during games and therefore nobody could park there. Soon people got the message and immediately started parking their car at the Transit Centre and catching a train from Roma Street to Milton, or at other places where there is sufficient parking space. Like last time I went to a game we paked out car in the carpark of Toowong Shopping Centre and then caught the train straight to Milton. Other times I have cought the train right out to Wellington Point, depends where I am staying.

Quite frankly I'm over this discussion, and find myself pretty much just repeatin myself oer and over again, myself. So this is the last thing I am going to say on the issue. Catching public transport to the football is a part of the culture of attending football in Queensland. It has not affected our attendences one bit, in fact our attendences are indeed rising. By having a good public transport system in place at the ground will encourage people to take PT. I don't care what you say, I've experienced both, driving to the game, and PT to the game and I must say I much prefer public transport any day.

Good for you. Really. I'm happy that you have the choice getting to a ground the way you prefer. A shame you don't agree with me.

You seem to think i'm anti public transport. You're wrong. I'm just anti forcing people onto public transport.

One more thing - I had a look at the Broncos attendances. They're rising at a very similar rate to the population increasing. And still lower than they were in the early 90's.

[Piefan39]

How many home games did the Broncos play last year? I think the AFL clubs get 11 home & 11 away dont they? Just wondering on the crowd aggregate figure, did it include finals as well?

Broncos seem pretty well supported

[docker]

http://www.thewest.com.au/default.aspx? ... tID=124539

WACA upgrade stalled by crisis
13th February 2009, 6:00 WST


The redevelopment of the WACA Ground would be delayed by the global financial crisis but would still go ahead, chairman David Williams said yesterday.

Mr Williams said the WACA and development partner Ascot Capital remained committed to the $550 million redevelopment, which includes the construction of a 10,000-seat northern grandstand.

Unlike shelved plans to upgrade Subiaco Oval, no taxpayer dollars have been committed to the WACA redevelopment, which will be fully funded by commercial development on land surrounding the ground. The plan includes construction of six residential and commercial towers, four of which could be up to 20 storeys.

But Mr Williams said most of the project, including the eight-storey grandstand, would now have to wait until the credit squeeze had ended and the economy improved to a point where “we and Ascot consider it prudent to go to the market”.

“Ascot has already spent $11 million to $12 million, including a $9 million payment to the WACA, so they’re committed to the project,” he said. “We still have people working on it on a daily basis, including an architect and other planning people.”

Instead of shelving plans, Mr Williams said the financial crisis and the continuing demand for office space in the city could lead to a rethinking of the project’s staging.

He said development of a 10-storey commercial tower and eight-storey residential block next to Queens Gardens might be brought forward.

The original plan was to build residential towers on the practice wicket area first but Mr Williams said Ascot Capital was now “in active talks” with potential commercial tenants.

“If we were able to attract a government department or a significant private sector tenant, we could get under way this year on the west wing project,” he said.

DANIEL HATCH

[the crow]

So they won't build the grandstand, but will instead build the residential/ commercial component which will make the WACA worse off functionally, environmentally, fiscally and aesthetically.... Whats the bet the budget for the new grandstand has just dropped by 11-12 mill as well.

Pants off, lube up and hold on tight Perth your about to be f**ked, and its gonna hurt....Oh yeah, do you like that say my name b**ch

[Egan]

It was a very optimistic project. I still do not get the rationale that the Inverarity and Prindiville Stand needs to exponential amounts of money.

There really is no demand to change the WACA anyways.

[Rob]

I still reckon it has about zero chance of happening. The big grandstands anyway.

[Egan]

But Rob you would know that there is no logic other then WACA grandeur for it to actually be developed...

[Egan]

Capacity - 18,092. Not much more than Bellerive

http://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/a/-/ne ... 0m-revamp/

WACA bats for $700m revampJOHN TOWNSEND, The West Australian
July 2, 2010, 2:25 am

Work on the privately funded $700 million redevelopment of the WACA Ground could start in March if members give their approval at a special meeting this month.

Members will be asked to back the WACA board's preferred development model which will cut capacity to 18,092 as six residential and commercial towers and a grandstand are built around the north, west and south perimeter of the ground.

All practice facilities and association offices would be retained at the East Perth ground as the WACA hopes to build cash reserves of $30 million for cricket development in the State. (Rejected from Town of Cambridge for practice facilities out of the WACA)

Work on the first stage, an eight-storey tower opposite Queens Gardens containing up to 80 apartments, could start in March as soon as the coming season is completed.

WACA chairman David Williams said member approval was the last step in the process that started three years ago when it became apparent that the ground was quickly becoming decrepit but that cricket would have to fund its own future.

"I am very confident the members will support these plans," he said.

He said he was buoyed by the large turnout of members at a briefing this week.

The members have to give formal approval for the deal with joint partner, developer Ascot Capital, at a special general meeting on July 28.

The WACA has already received building approvals from the East Perth Redevelopment Authority and a favourable tax ruling.

The planned redevelopment will include short-stay accommodation that could be converted into corporate areas on match days.

The EPRA also intends to dredge an inlet from near the Causeway to the south-east corner of the ground which would provide lucrative water views and access from at least one of the towers.

Members will be offered the chance to buy apartments at a 5 per cent discount to the market price.

Mr Williams said that Marylebone Cricket Club, the owner of Lord's, was following the project closely as it prepared for its own redevelopment of the world's most famous cricket ground.

The WACA, which will keep the first $100 million raised before Ascot receives any profits, will sell off most of the residential apartments but is considering retaining a larger portion of the commercial development to guarantee a future revenue stream.

The WACA board considered three separate design models that included both a larger and smaller seating capacity but was reluctant to split its operations so that training facilities were housed away from the ground.

The WACA was obliged to act quickly because next March the EPRA will resume a parcel of land between the east side of the ground and Trinity College to build a new access road to the Causeway.

[Boba Fett]

If this pans out the WACA can forget hosting any big games. I'm not saying they should be building some huge monstrosity, but geez, 18,000?!?!?!?

[Egan]

Its been 20,000 for quite a few years now. WACA will always be used, because its owned by the Western Australian Cricket Association who will always choose to play a test match there. Attendances are still better than Hobart.

World Cup 2015 will be interesting

WACA or Subi Oval

[Boba Fett]

WACA will always be used, because its owned by the Western Australian Cricket Association who will always choose to play a test match there.

It's up to CA to allocate where test matches are played. What this decision means is that Perth now ranks more or less with Hobart as a venue. Tassie would have some justification in playing the "we've never had an Ashes Test and the revenue difference will be negligible" line against Perth.

On the other hand, if it's a six test series everyone gets a go!