International Rugby League

[keithroosters]

i agree, rugby is strong in france , theres no debating that and im not trying to. 5/6 nations hasnt been a strong competition for all those 77 years though, far from it. union got its big break in france when league was banned and hasnt really looked back and well done to them.

they remain very fragile. If just one or two people stepped away in certain frontier countries, the game would collapse there.

im realistic about where countries like latvia, serbia or wherever are at. the euro bowl and some other tournaments equant to just park football at the moment. however with the invention of the RLEF theyre not as fragile as in the past. hitherto if one backer pulled out the game would be on the brink of collapse as demonstrated in Russia. i am very much looking forward to the european nations, very even competition, no matter how large the scale of the tournament is.

[swede]

RL is not struggling in Europe. Swede's comments need to be balanced with a bit of reality. SL is moving along bloody well with clubs in Wales and France now present in the competition. In England, SL matches regularly outrate Guinness Premiership matches on Sky.

At the same time keith, many of these frontier competitions need to be seen for what they are. These places are a long way off being even semi-professional AND because they are new, they remain very fragile. If just one or two people stepped away in certain frontier countries, the game would collapse there.

I have no delusions of grandeur about the "global" presence of RL. At the same time, why would you stop anyone playing a sport they want to play? That's why comments like swede's "RL ought to consider going semi-pro but at the very least should be careful about emphasing an international game, when it cant realistically hold onto its new talent."

Leaving aside the fact his years of prophecies have amounted to little in the way of defections, not everything should be geared to professional internationals.

I wasnt just having a go at RL. I dont like the sport, true, but the issue here was their priorities and lack of a sense of reality. One thing I really do respect about RL is the club-culture in its many small traditional northern towns. There was a great piece about this in the London times from the former UK government´s meister of spin, who wrote about a trip back to Keighley Cougars.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/ ... 312502.ece

Unfortunately, english RL doesnt care about Keighley. They want Lebanon or London or anything else away from its roots, which apparently is so embarassing to the sport. Therefore the crucial central funding from TV is sent to futile destinations like London, which have been a disaster for decades or yes the new club in Wales, where crowds are down to 2-3,000
watching the australians hired to play the game. The chance of that club getting a new license appear small.
Millions are wasted chasing such fantasies. No other sport, I know of, behaves even remotely like this. The locals fight for Keighley, while the authorities send central income to la-la land. Its a ludicrous waste, that RL cant afford. The sport is shockingly poor. Half the clubs are only kept going by handouts. Sure, many sports get such extra funding from individuals but in RL its the difference between being full time or not.

As for the international game, I just dont see it as the way to go. The RU salary cap was similar to RL only a few years, now its doubled and it will not stop there. Its not so much "defections" but RU hoovering up all young talent. In those circumstances, how can they ever compete with Australia. play it, sure, but I would prioritize the Keighleys over the Serbias

[swede]

its definately not bigger than football redback_original. rugby has made great progress in the past decade to expand their game internationally. however the fact that a nation outside of SANZAR and england is yet to win it shows it still has quite a way to come. not quite as far as league but i have respect for both games. League lacks the funds but has made progress beyond expectation since the invention of the RLEF in 2003. the RLIF really lets the game down as ot is filled with the same careerists that run the NRL.
the barbarians game will be fantastic! perfect choice of stadium for it aswell. what a weekend , state of origin and barbarians!

There has been 6 RU world cups, and you dont think 4 different champions is enough?

The Sanzar big three were almost all ditched at the QF-stage of the last world cup. England beat Australia, France dumped NZ, and Fiji had South Africa in the ropes deep into the second half.
Despite that english,french success, Wales and Ireland have taken the last few 6-nations titles. So the sport is very competitive. The NH v SH gap exists, but come world cup time, where everyone is prepared, it clearly shrinks dramatically.

[swede]

Rugby league doesnt claim to have a huge international presence in Europe or wherever you want to mention. The Rugby League European Federation (RLEF) works extremely hard in the work that they do and it will still be quite a while before they gain the foothold that union has. theyre not arragant enough to claim theyre bigger than what they are. i'd be suprised if union has more than 1% of the population thats is intereted in it.

Union is the national sport in France. It is more popular than football.

I'll freely admit I haven't done any research on this, but I do find it hard to believe that rugby is bigger than soccer in France.

I know that in the Toulose region this may be the case.. but I doubt it elsewhere.

Rugby is bigger in large parts of southern France and is making impressive inroads in Paris, where there will be two teams next season.
( actually the same two teams, who contested the first french finals in the late 1800´s , then helped by non-paris teams being banned due to their annoying locations)

But football is bigger. The overall difference is huge among the more"casual" followers, that are so crucial for tv.
As for the more actively interested, as in the pro game is best measured by attendances, rugby is fast catching up and could possibly match football in the future.

[keithroosters]

rugby league was exclusive to the north of england for over 100 years. unfortunately not every small town like keighly can have a team though. theres nothing wrong with thinking long term. clubs are put in areas that have the potential to flurrish in the future. clubs like wakefield and castleford can only make so much money.

what do you say to the thousands of league fans in non traditional areas that put so much of their effort into the game? "dont bother, u have no future, dont have fun cos your wasting your time?" would you say the same thing to the 20,000 registered union players in Russia?

if any sport is putting all their effort into non traditional areas its rugby union. russia, japan.... there was a bledisloe game in hong kong last year and one coming up in tokyo!

im curious why this whole thread had revolved around france so far. is it because its pretty much the only country outside the commonwealth thats remotely competetive? thats not really a global sport. i say if anyone from any country wants to play any sport let them do what they love. giving them funds helps them carry this out.

[Egan]

rugby league was exclusive to the north of england for over 100 years. unfortunately not every small town like keighly can have a team though. theres nothing wrong with thinking long term. clubs are put in areas that have the potential to flurrish in the future. clubs like wakefield and castleford can only make so much money.

what do you say to the thousands of league fans in non traditional areas that put so much of their effort into the game? "dont bother, u have no future, dont have fun cos your wasting your time?" would you say the same thing to the 20,000 registered union players in Russia?

if any sport is putting all their effort into non traditional areas its rugby union. russia, japan.... there was a bledisloe game in hong kong last year and one coming up in tokyo!

im curious why this whole thread had revolved around france so far. is it because its pretty much the only country outside the commonwealth thats remotely competetive? thats not really a global sport. i say if anyone from any country wants to play any sport let them do what they love. giving them funds helps them carry this out.

Out of all the trolls on this forum, Swede is the longest serving, nicest and the one who at least has an argument

Will need him on the forum for the Ashes in a few weeks time...

[DoggiesFever]

how is swedes arguement better? he's basically saying that rugby league shouldnt be played in other countries. also, what does how long u have been on the forum have to do with anything.

[Egan]

how is swedes arguement better? he's basically saying that rugby league shouldnt be played in other countries. also, what does how long u have been on the forum have to do with anything.

Nothing.

Just I would have thought Jeffles would have ignored Swede by now. The same topics have come up for the last 5 years.

Although he's stopped on the England is the greatest nation on earth caimpaign and that the MCG is too large for Melbourne.

[bazza]

Nothing like a thread about international rugby league to bring out a bunch of people who don't like rugby league.

I think Australia will win the 4 nations. I will be interested to see whether England pick some new blood or stick to the old, proven losers

RL in europe is seriously struggling. The club game is frankly hovering just above sustainabilty as a pro-game. Crowds are down, while they are up everywhere in RU.

The trend for crowds in super league seems to be up. Even the extra 2 teams hasn't affect the average too much

http://www.slstats.org/Attendances/

[gyfox]

Nothing like a thread about international rugby league to bring out a bunch of people who don't like rugby league.

Hey... I like Rugby League. I've been a Bulldogs fan from when they were called the Berries. I just don't rate French RL very highly. They only thing they could ever do well is throw coat hangers.

[swede]

rugby league was exclusive to the north of england for over 100 years. unfortunately not every small town like keighly can have a team though. theres nothing wrong with thinking long term. clubs are put in areas that have the potential to flurrish in the future. clubs like wakefield and castleford can only make so much money.

But thats precisely where the lack of reality sets in. Why can Castleford "only make so much money" and how can the solution be to expand with even less profitable clubs. Its chasing fantasies, while showing no respect for the only real clubs the sport has got.

what do you say to the thousands of league fans in non traditional areas that put so much of their effort into the game? "dont bother, u have no future, dont have fun cos your wasting your time?" would you say the same thing to the 20,000 registered union players in Russia?

If there really were these "thousands of league fans" in non-traditional areas, so many expansion clubs would not have been disasters. There are thousands more in realistic RL areas that have no club.
London get crowds of 2,000 playing the highest level in a colosal city. Keighley get 1,000 playing several levels lower down in a town of 40,000.
There is more realistic potential in Keighley and it would be a stronger club in a town where RL would be no.1

And no, I would not like to see any RU expansion teams in Russia. Nor will it happen. Expansion shouldnt be mindless. water the roots and expansion takes care of itself. There are genuine pro dutch and czech players playing in european club rugby in Britain and France, but no ridiculous expansion teams set up.
RU do send a world cup cheque to just about everywhere, which to me is also spreading the ressources a bit too much. but I think they are changing this to some degree and anyway, there is at least a genuine rugby presence where the money goes. And of course, RU is far far richer.

if any sport is putting all their effort into non traditional areas its rugby union. russia, japan.... there was a bledisloe game in hong kong last year and one coming up in tokyo!

completly different. RL is spreading its limited ressources thin like no other sport, chasing a fantasy future, whereas southern rugby is doing the opposite, milking an existing market at the risk of overkill. Neither way is good but at least southern RU are honest about it and admits its short term thinking for the need of income.

im curious why this whole thread had revolved around france so far. is it because its pretty much the only country outside the commonwealth thats remotely competetive? thats not really a global sport. i say if anyone from any country wants to play any sport let them do what they love. giving them funds helps them carry this out.

Argentina and Italy are not in the commonwealth but certainly competitive. Of course everyone should play what they want but dont waste ressources.

[swede]

how is swedes arguement better? he's basically saying that rugby league shouldnt be played in other countries. also, what does how long u have been on the forum have to do with anything.

of course, I am not saying that. I am suggesting a sport, that in reality is fighting to stay full time in England, shouldnt send too much money to Lebanon just because some travelling australians set up a few teams there.

most english SL clubs dont even reach the tiny £ 4 million turnover, the sport itself has set up as criteria.

[swede]

Nothing like a thread about international rugby league to bring out a bunch of people who don't like rugby league.

I think Australia will win the 4 nations. I will be interested to see whether England pick some new blood or stick to the old, proven losers

RL in europe is seriously struggling. The club game is frankly hovering just above sustainabilty as a pro-game. Crowds are down, while they are up everywhere in RU.

The trend for crowds in super league seems to be up. Even the extra 2 teams hasn't affect the average too much

http://www.slstats.org/Attendances/

Looking at the same numbers, I would say they are clearly down. Take out the two disastrous expansion clubs and it might be just about flat. but, I believe RL crowds tend to dip significantly as their season moves into summer for real.

[keithroosters]

how can the solution be to expand with even less profitable clubs.

With the population a lot higher than your example of keighly the long term goal is to attract some of those fans and create a strong club. There is an incredible amount of work to be done in the first 5 years of a club like celtic crusaders but if it pays off in the long term the RFL will be praised for their foresight. As for showing no repect for the clubs they’ve got , that’s a matter of opinion that I disagree with.

London get crowds of 2,000 playing the highest level in a colosal city. Keighley get 1,000 playing several levels lower down in a town of 40,000.

If in 10 years the numbers are still 3,500 then I will agree with you swede but that’s obviously not the goal in this case.

There is more realistic potential in Keighley and it would be a stronger club in a town where RL would be no.1

The town has 40,000 people! Theres more realistic potential in the next few years maybe but if your trying to arugue potential markets then you went wrong using keighly.

There are genuine pro dutch and czech players playing in european club rugby in Britain and France

The long term goal shouldn’t be for players in non traditional areas to have to leave their country to play the sport they love.

[swede]

how can the solution be to expand with even less profitable clubs.

With the population a lot higher than your example of keighly the long term goal is to attract some of those fans and create a strong club. There is an incredible amount of work to be done in the first 5 years of a club like celtic crusaders but if it pays off in the long term the RFL will be praised for their foresight. As for showing no repect for the clubs they’ve got , that’s a matter of opinion that I disagree with.

actually, the celtic crusaders is based in a town no bigger than Keighley, even if their name is an attempt to appeal to a larger market.
Yesterday, they sunk to a new low of 2,000 for a game, half of which apparently were tickets given away. They have 250 season ticket holders. They lose money staging games in an empty stadium, having to cover various costs for basically no income. Even some of their own supporters believe the club ( if such a hollow entity can be called that) will soon be put out of its misery.

London get crowds of 2,000 playing the highest level in a colosal city. Keighley get 1,000 playing several levels lower down in a town of 40,000.

If in 10 years the numbers are still 3,500 then I will agree with you swede but that’s obviously not the goal in this case.

the club has already been there 30 years. 10 more is unlikely to be more than continued waste.

There is more realistic potential in Keighley and it would be a stronger club in a town where RL would be no.1

The town has 40,000 people! Theres more realistic potential in the next few years maybe but if your trying to arugue potential markets then you went wrong using keighly.

40,000 is plenty to build something better than many existing SL clubs. Especially as RL would be no. 1, which generates support from local people beyond the narrow confines of strictly RL-followers. general sports followers, sponsors, local patriots etc will drift towards the biggest sport in the town. That means both identity, income and sustainability.

Leicester is the richest rugby club in the world, but they are hardly the biggest city. Bath RU play in a town of some 80,000, yet probably generates more income than any RL club in the world.

There are genuine pro dutch and czech players playing in european club rugby in Britain and France

The long term goal shouldn’t be for players in non traditional areas to have to leave their country to play the sport they love.

in theory perhaps, but completly unrealistic for any sport in the world.
besides, why? Its more important that a player can get to play, than whether he can play where he was born.