Football(Soccer) in Australia - the future?

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Spirit of Santos
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Re: Football(Soccer) in Australia - the future?

Post by Spirit of Santos »

I wrote a reply to this post from AUR in the AFL thread, but before I posted it I realised my response had absoutly nothing to do with AFL and everything to do with the A-League. So I've copied and pasted the lot over to this thread.

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=3564&start=510
Adelaide_United_Red wrote: Capping the A-League is a neccesary evil in my mind. It allows the club's administrationsto budget a solid figure for player expenditure in a period of fierce competition. Trying to start up a new league is not cheap. MLS bled millions doing the same in as competitive an environment as Australia.If there was no Salary cap, both Sydney and M<elbourne would make like Madrid & Barca, turning our league into a 2 horse race. Football already faces a perception problem in this country, with 8 of 10 clubs having no real chance to win it, the lack of a fair go would make taking shots at the league easier than it is now. Perhaps in the future after 20 years, the football pie would have grown enough to remove the cap and the squad size limit, but any loss in competitiveness would be to the dtriment of the league I feel. There are dreamers(kids) who write on football forums who bitch an moan that the cap is not real football and theat we need a 2nd division with promotion/relegation to have a 'proper' football league in this county. Sure, and the money to fund this will come from where exactly? It does make life difficult because in an open market we are intentionally tying one hand behiond our backs, as we see in the Asian Champions League.

In a closed environment, the AFL might be able to get away with no cap, after all you can hire as many assistant coaches as you like, fly the team to high altitude training whenever it bestfits, but you can't offer your bet player the salary he is worth. If anything though I feel the AFL will go the opposite way and cap the off-field spend to try to reverse the two-tier construct currently appearing in the AFL. In the NFL this extra money(profit) goes into to pocket of the wealthy owner, not sure where the leftover money (aka profit) would go for the AFL clubs?
I agree that the salary cap is the most the prudent thing to do.

However, while improving slightly, one can't help but think the A-League's current course is a road to nowhere. I wonder what would happen if they DID scrap the cap.

The Palmer backed Gold Coast could have a great team. Being consistently at the top they might then morph into an actual club with actual fans. Imagine the bitterness in Brisbane, a club with a natural constituency, at being dominated by their less deserving, smaller and uncultured neighbor. The Roar already take the rivalry seriously from their end. The sight last season of 1500 Brisbane fans massed behind the goal at an otherwise empty Robina was quite a memorable one. Now what if the Gold Coast actually had a support? There’d be the proverbial two to tango.

And who's to say where it would end? Fatso Clive is the richest man is Australia and only stands to get richer. I know he seems a tight arse now with the closing of stands to save money, but make no mistake, the man is a capitalist pig-dog. With the leash removed and the potential for self aggrandizing open he might really invest in the team and club. Few imagined in 2003 that Abramovic would still be pumping big money into Chelsea 8 years later. Could we get to experience the pleasure of seeing a team run by an Australian Oligarch lose a Asian Champions League final on penalties?

Also what of Tinklers Newcastle? With no cap they’d have the potential to out-recruit clubs like Adelaide, Perth, Brisbane ect. Newcastle has a strong football heritage and Novacastrians generally are parochial. They love a winner. A competitive Jets could see support greatly increase and possibly have a flow on effect down the Freeway.

As for Sydney, with no salary cap, how long would it be before a new consortium took over? The Lowy family might become re-involved. Frank is worth 5.5 billion. He's 80. That money will be no good to him when he's dead. He might just be willing spend a portion of it on one of his great life long passions. Imagine the potential of Sydney FC in such a scenario. Why couldn't they attract quality players from Asia and from certain leagues in Europe and South America?

Consider the recent examples of Carlos Hernadez and Patricio Perez. Before he came to Australia Hernadez was toiling in away in Costa Rica with L.D. Alajuelense. Perez was completely inconsequential in Argentina, playing for a small club in the Primera B. Even as it currently stands with the salary cap in place MVFC was a more then attractive option for Hernadez, one of the top domestic players in Costa Ricca and the freaking Central Coast Mariners were able to pay Perez more then a club in the Argentine second division. Both players were guns in the A-League and instant sensations with fans.

There’s a ton such footballers and better in South America that are playing for very little money. Cashed up A-League club's would be a very attractive prospect for them. Australia is a great place to live.

So scrapping the salary cap could mean more private investment which = better players, higher standards, competitiveness in Asia, bigger crowds, more revenue. Money is a tremendous change agent. 15 years ago the English Premier League was a place Serie A rejects would go.

Now this is an overly optimistic scenario and I don't think any of this will happen, it's more of a "what if?" However unlike Promotion/Relegation I feel a salary cap free A-League or even an A-League with a higher salary cap then half the clubs can reach is at least conceivable.

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Re: Football(Soccer) in Australia - the future?

Post by Adelaide_United_Red »

This post should defiitely get us back on track for the future of football in Australia..
Melbourne Heart Have e-sent this out to their members:
"Dear...,

Since our foundation, Melbourne Heart FC has strived to develop into a football club truly representative of the wider Victorian round ball community.

With a significant focus at grassroots level and developing youth, our Club has worked tirelessly to ensure we are making an active contribution to the development of our game, the beautiful game across the State.

Next season, we will look to take this commitment one step further, and are delighted to announce that we are currently exploring the possibility of releasing a share offering to fans, enabling you to participate in taking genuine ownership in Melbourne Heart FC.

Melbourne Heart FC is looking at various ownership models currently used in many overseas clubs. These include a class of ownership, number of shares issued progressively over a period of years, share price control sale arrangements and maximum amount of shares to be offered.

We would be delighted if you could answer this questionnaire to enable us to understand more about your interest in potentially purchasing shares in Melbourne Heart FC.

It is available until Monday August 1st, 2011.

Yours sincerely,

Scott Munn
Chief Executive Officer
Melbourne Heart FC"
very interesting. IIRC NQ Fury were investigating this scenario, or something like it when they ran out of time in March 2011. Could Heart be leading the way?

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Re: Football(Soccer) in Australia - the future?

Post by Rob »

Sounds like code for 'we've run out of money and don't want to cough up ourselves. Anyone else want to kick in?'

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Re: Football(Soccer) in Australia - the future?

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Rob wrote:Sounds like code for 'we've run out of money and don't want to cough up ourselves. Anyone else want to kick in?'
Its funny you should look for the negative in this. Normally that is the reserve of the football community (could find a negative in the Second coming of Jesus) but my reading of the various football boards has this pegged with an overwhelmingly positive response, except from Victory fans, who deride anything/everything Heart do, and a lot of fans Australia-wide it would seem would be willing to kick in a sum for 'ownership' of their club.

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Re: Football(Soccer) in Australia - the future?

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Adelaide_United_Red wrote:
Rob wrote:Sounds like code for 'we've run out of money and don't want to cough up ourselves. Anyone else want to kick in?'
Its funny you should look for the negative in this. Normally that is the reserve of the football community (could find a negative in the Second coming of Jesus) but my reading of the various football boards has this pegged with an overwhelmingly positive response, except from Victory fans, who deride anything/everything Heart do, and a lot of fans Australia-wide it would seem would be willing to kick in a sum for 'ownership' of their club.
I think I tend to agree with Rob. If it was such a good concept, why hasn't it been adopted by more clubs (of all codes)? But if they are strapped for cash, at least they're being creative about looking for alternatives rather than just whinging about it or running off to either the government or the league/FFA.

Either way I hope it works out for them.

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Re: Football(Soccer) in Australia - the future?

Post by Adelaide_United_Red »

The word from the supporters on the AUFC Member/Club Consultation Group is that United have been investigating this avenue since the consortium took over last year but wanted to wait until the club had achieved a level of financial stability first. I'd be even more keen if the United board had a plan to invest money in the future of the club (by building a centre of excellence like the CCM) with the influx of capital. I guess with Adelaide United posting a modest profit last season we could be seeing that in the near future then. When the Western Bulldogs were in the crapper financially(late 1990's?), I'm surprised they didn't at least investigate the Barcelona model. Maybe they didand we didn't hear about it? However with the number of journalists accredited in by the AFL outnumbering the total that follow Federal Parliament by almost 3:1*, if it did occur, the odds are we'd know about it.
*http://afl.com.au/Portals/0/afl_docs/af ... 6-2008.pdf

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Re: Football(Soccer) in Australia - the future?

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Adelaide_United_Red wrote:The word from the supporters on the AUFC Member/Club Consultation Group is that United have been investigating this avenue since the consortium took over last year but wanted to wait until the club had achieved a level of financial stability first.
Which implies pretty strongly they didn't have much confidence in this model to contribute to financial stability.

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Re: Football(Soccer) in Australia - the future?

Post by Adelaide_United_Red »

Boba Fett wrote:
Adelaide_United_Red wrote:The word from the supporters on the AUFC Member/Club Consultation Group is that United have been investigating this avenue since the consortium took over last year but wanted to wait until the club had achieved a level of financial stability first.
Which implies pretty strongly they didn't have much confidence in this model to contribute to financial stability.
I read it as, lets get the business model correct before we go to the fans to avoid criticisms like:
"Sounds like code for 'we've run out of money and don't want to cough up ourselves. Anyone else want to kick in?'

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Re: Football(Soccer) in Australia - the future?

Post by Rob »

Adelaide_United_Red wrote:
Rob wrote:Sounds like code for 'we've run out of money and don't want to cough up ourselves. Anyone else want to kick in?'
Its funny you should look for the negative in this. Normally that is the reserve of the football community (could find a negative in the Second coming of Jesus) but my reading of the various football boards has this pegged with an overwhelmingly positive response, except from Victory fans, who deride anything/everything Heart do, and a lot of fans Australia-wide it would seem would be willing to kick in a sum for 'ownership' of their club.
In business, companies issue shares for generally 1 reason. They need money. Sometimes it's to fund a capital expansion (eg. a takeover, or another big capital spend), sometimes it's to pay off debt and sometimes it's because they're simply out of cash and need more to keep operating. Either way, they don't do it just for a laugh, because it dilutes the current shareholders and they lose control. It also has the added 'benefit' in this case of having to convert to a public company, bringing with it a whole new range of obligations and public scrutiny of finances that a private company doesn't have.

I'm not sure why you think that drawing this simple conclusion in this case is 'the negative'. The correct terminology is that it's 'the most likely by the length of the Flemington straight'. If they didn't need money, they wouldn't do it. Alternatively, if they could raise the money via other means (existing shareholders for example), they almost certainly would do that.

As you correctly point out, the last sporting team in the country to talk about something similar was the Fury. And it was solely for the reason that they were in deep, deep financial sh*t.

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Re: Football(Soccer) in Australia - the future?

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Rob wrote:As you correctly point out, the last sporting team in the country to talk about something similar was the Fury. And it was solely for the reason that they were in deep, deep financial sh*t.
Probably my opportunity. I've always been interested by the Broncos public listing but it was never really on topic. Why is it listed when News LTD owns a majority stake anyway? It's not like News needed the money from floating it.

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Re: Football(Soccer) in Australia - the future?

Post by Rob »

I'm pretty sure News have acquired their stake whilst it's been listed, they didn't float it.

According to the ASX they listed in 1989, which was their 2nd season. So it was probably a structure they envisaged when the club was formed. Which doesn't surprise me given private ownership was all the rage back then. North Melbourne was even a listed company for a while.

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Re: Football(Soccer) in Australia - the future?

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I know many English football clubs floated on the LDN stock-exchange as .PLEs in the 80's and 90's, but the preferred method for gaining a capital injection these days seems to be uncovering a Russian oligarch or ME sheik who's had a "lifelong passion for the club" :P publicly floating football clubs has died out AFAIK.

Closer to home didn't North Melbourne issue shares of which Carlton bought a significant % ?

As for the A-League Rob, your point makes a lot of sense. It works in Spain because Barcelona are considered more than a club, more like the sporting arm of a political party(one that promotes the Catalan identity to the rest of Spain during the hostile Franco years.

For my club, I've already said that if AUFC decided they wanted to build a centre of excellence like the CC Mariners, but figured out that Adelaide isn't a marginal electorate so were unlikely to get Federal funds. Say they decided to offer 'foundation memberships' or some-such that offered additional benefits over and above the usual Season Ticket memberships for a one off fund raiser of say 1000 x $5000 'shares' to raise $5m capital to build the facility. AFAIK This was how almost every single sporting club in Australia was formed back in the 1900s - the current membership structure is underwritten by the huge TV revenues that leagues like the AFL receive. I'm sure I could raise that $5k amount and 'buy my brick' for the club. Seeing as how Heart still don't have a real point of difference to Victory(not in geography or base identity, perhaps this is their method of mimicking the old NSL community clubs? I'm not a Heart member so I'm not privvy to the details except that initial email that was posted on 442.

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Re: Football(Soccer) in Australia - the future?

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A very welcome (at least by the football blogosphere) attempt by Gold Coast United to step up its engagement with the GC Junior/local football scene
United to sponsor local Premier League
Friday, 15 July 2011


GOLD Coast United’s links with the local football community have been strengthened further with the news that the club will sponsor the Gold Coast Premier League for the remainder of this season.

The agreement includes a cash injection from United into Gold Coast Soccer Inc, in exchange for the naming rights to the local flagship competition, which will be known as the ‘Gold Coast United Premier League’.

An added incentive for the winner of this season’s local Grand Final is also included in the deal, with a match up against Miron Bleiberg’s men awaiting the team crowned as Premier League Champions this term.

The sponsorship is just one element of a rejuvenated working relationship between United and the local governing body with a string of new initiatives to be rolled out over the next twelve months, including a new beach soccer tournament and a football expo.

United will also increase their presence at all Gold Coast Soccer events, presentation nights, carnivals and football-related activity.

Club CEO Clive Mensink says the formalised partnership will be of great benefit to the game in the region as the relationship evolves in the coming years.

“Clive Palmer has said from day one that we wanted to provide pathways for young players on the Gold Coast. We have already been doing that successfully in our first couple of years, but this new working relationship with Gold Coast Soccer takes us a step closer to strengthening the foundations that will allow those pathways to flourish in the future.

“Our sponsorship of the local competition is an opportunity for us to assist the game at grassroots level and provide our support, but moving forward it is the partnership itself that will provide most benefit to the game.

“Gold Coast Soccer has a very important role to play with the club and vice-versa. We are all in this together and want what’s best for the code. We are delighted to be formalising our relationship and the football community will now be able to recognise the intrinsic links between the two organisations.

“We will be involved with Gold Coast Soccer at every level and will share community events. This will provide additional visibility and exposure for both our brands with the ideal outcome being increased support for the local game and also Gold Coast United.

“It is a symbiotic relationship with the intention of assisting both entities to achieve their goals and benefit the game as a whole.”
source:
http://www.a-league.com.au/default.aspx ... y&id=40334
I guess that means those death-riding GCU by prophesying Clive's pulling out of his money can STFU. He's actually stepped it up a gear it would seem.
Last edited by Adelaide_United_Red on Sat Jul 16, 2011 8:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Football(Soccer) in Australia - the future?

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Adelaide_United_Red wrote:Closer to home didn't North Melbourne issue shares of which Carlton bought a significant % ?
It was 1991 - Carlton bought 1/5 of the club before trading was suspended at the request of North. Carlton held the stake for a good 10 years before selling back to a North Melbourne board member. The club was publicly traded from 86-06.

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Re: Football(Soccer) in Australia - the future?

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yob wrote:
Adelaide_United_Red wrote:Closer to home didn't North Melbourne issue shares of which Carlton bought a significant % ?
It was 1991 - Carlton bought 1/5 of the club before trading was suspended at the request of North. Carlton held the stake for a good 10 years before selling back to a North Melbourne board member. The club was publicly traded from 86-06.
Why did Carlton do that? Some sort of attempt at a hostile take over?

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