English Rugby League Grounds

Chat about stadiums in New Zealand and all around the world!
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britishspud
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Post by britishspud »

it's nowhere near as bad as it was in the 70's & 80's, when fans fought pitched battles in the stadiums.now it's more underground and very organised, each and every club has it's hardcore hooligans,oldham athletics are called the FYC (fine young casuals), man citys are called THE FIRM,chealsea are the HEADHUNTERS etc...every team has them....they sort out the fights on messageboards,then once in the towns they use text messages..and meet up and battle in out..

it's reckoned (by the police) that during the late 80's when it all went quite it was because all the hooligans began taking eastacy (the drug) and went all loved up :D but now they've started to have cocaine and it's made them all aggressive again.

it sound daft but if you stay out of certain pubs and leave em to it you would know it was still going on..

but being english we are finding it hard to shake off the hooligan tag.and when english teams play in europe,we do get pick on by the foreign police,abit of payback for what we did in the 70's /80's...but we aren't the worst,nowhere near. italy - 85 cops got put in hospital the other weekend that was before what happened at the milan derby. turkey- the european cup final is held there next month and i hate to say this cos either chelsea or liverpool will be there,but i fear someone will die.. england fans got banned from travelling to turkey for a world cup qulilifier,for our own safety.. it's just pure tribalism.

as for rugby...it has happened, a leeds v hull challenge cup semi final at huddersfield,about 4/5 years ago.about a 1000 hull fans stormed the pitch and made towards the leeds fans at the opposite end....and like i said isolated stuff...

after all that......i don't know why it's worse in football than rugby...maybe watching 13 guy beat sh*t out of each other is enough for rugby fans.

didn't you lot have some trouble about a month or 2 ago?? but aren't/weren't your clubs formed along national lines, ie greek,croatian, yugoslavian etc....i can understand it kicking off, balkan countries don't really get on with each other :?

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Jeffles
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Post by Jeffles »

britishspud wrote:after all that......i don't know why it's worse in football than rugby...maybe watching 13 guy beat sh*t out of each other is enough for rugby fans.

didn't you lot have some trouble about a month or 2 ago?? but aren't/weren't your clubs formed along national lines, ie greek,croatian, yugoslavian etc....i can understand it kicking off, balkan countries don't really get on with each other :?
I had a theory along the lines of the first paragraph.

As for our soccer clubs, there have been some incidences this year. It is a shame though because those riots take away from the success that is state level soccer.

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Simmo79
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Post by Simmo79 »

If the RL v soccer argument above in spud's post is correct it might be along Jungian, group psychic energy/psychology grounds ... just a thought. :idea:

I'm pretty familiar with theories on hooliganism - at Canberra Uni, there was a pretty impressive collection of books on football sociology which had a heavy emphasis on the big rivalries in world football (eg/ Celtic-Rangers, Boca-River etc) and of course, the hoolies. There was an evolution of crowd violence in the UK.

Between the late 60s and the early 80s the "violence" was mostly perpetrated by teenagers and blokes in their very early 20s. Behaviour was mostly "running" (charging across terraces at the opposing fans and then backing off within 5m of them, all the while looking like you wanted a punch-up, but as soon as one came, you buggered off again). Running happened in the streets around stadiums in the hours before matches as well. Actual, full-on punch-ups did happen but not nearly as much as any politican or cop would have you believe. It was mostly displays of macho teenage behaviour where no-one was seriously hurt. The exception was Heysel, where the Juve fans were run at by Liverpool across the terracing. They fled backwards against a wall, pushed it over and crushed 39 people dead.

Through the 80s the behaviour of hooligans evolved. It became more intense. This was the era when the hooligan “firms” that Spud mentioned came into existence. As these guys got older they took their violence more seriously. The thrill of running opposition supporters was not enough. They were out to do real harm to other fans. In “Fever Pitch”, Nick Hornby tells of an early 80s match when West Ham's Inner City Firm killed a young Arsenal fan after a match at Highbury. It was a whole new level of violence and the cops came down as hard on it as they could, mostly through infiltrating the gangs [– has anyone else seen the BBC doco where the Irish journo Donal McIntyre infiltrated the Chelsea Headhunters for 6 months?]

The sociologists who interviewed the hooligans found that the reasons for being in these gangs were like “pride in the team”, “pride in the (club’s) community”, “protecting the team/town’s honour against other hooligans” as well as boredom associated with poverty and other nonsense reasons. None of them gave reasons like “It makes me feel like a man”, “fighting is exciting” or “I like being part of a gang” which are probably closer to the truth. I reckon the type of people who enjoy anti-social behaviour are attracted to football hooliganism (and later the organised firms) in the UK, but in OZ, the same types of people found their way into bikie gangs instead.

The Taylor report was also a big factor in the evolution of hooligan behaviour. Without terracing running could no longer occur. With seats, individual people were much easier to pick out of the crowd on CCTV. Smaller crowds are also easier to police. It became too difficult to fight within stadiums, so the fights happened away from the well-policed ground before and after matches.

Actually, the above paragraph best explains why terracing is not allowed back in the big grounds. It should also be noted that the big clubs also have the largest hoolie following (naturally) so it would be a constant threat having those buggers moving in and out of large disorganised crowd on a terrace on match day. It wouldn’t be too difficult a task to find an arrest a hooligan in a 3,000 crowd in a small ground, but far harder in the North Bank or Clock End terraces when Highbury had a 60,000 capacity pre-Taylor report, for example.

Spud, was there a collective attitude amongst RL fans that violence was more of a "soccer thing" and your people tended to avoid it? I'm sure that would be the case with RU (esp as they're all toffs who think it inappropriate to get too passionate about sport at any rate).

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Post by Jeffles »

Simmo79 wrote:Spud, was there a collective attitude amongst RL fans that violence was more of a "soccer thing" and your people tended to avoid it? I'm sure that would be the case with RU (esp as they're all toffs who think it inappropriate to get too passionate about sport at any rate).
Excellent post all round.

As for this last paragraph, I hear a lot of RL people in the UK follow this line. "We don't have violence. That's soccer." or "We're a family sport."

Rivalry between supporters is usually limited to friendly banter in the stands.

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britishspud
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Post by britishspud »

back to rugby stadiums...

heres the salford reds new stadium, when it gets built that is..it's going to get planning permission in the next weel or so.

Image
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Jeffles
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Post by Jeffles »

A great ground for a team with no fans. Will the seats spell out "REDS". If they do, you'll still be able to read them when the game's on.

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Simmo79
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Post by Simmo79 »

Whats the capacity?

I feel sorry for Salford. No club would want to live within spitting distance of Manchester United. That must affect their crowd pulling ability.

I once read that in 1999 Salford's manager was fired because he missed a training session. He was in Barcelona watching ManUre win the European Cup. Is that true?

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Jeffles
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Post by Jeffles »

The capacity would be 20,000. The capacity of their current ground is 11,000.

I don't know about Salford's manager but I am told that they were called the Red Devils before ManUre were. The nickname was given to them after they toured France in the 1930s.

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Post by IanRitchie »

Perhaps Salford should ensure staying in the top flight before making up a stadium.

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Post by Egan »

I feel sorry for Salford. No club would want to live within spitting distance of Manchester United.
Unless you live in the oasis amongst the scum of the world Bolton :lol:

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Post by Jeffles »

IanRitchie wrote:Perhaps Salford should ensure staying in the top flight before making up a stadium.
True, but apparently the ground isn't costing them a thing. It is being built by Red City Developments and includes a casino, hotel, shops, etc opmn the premises. The stadium is the community part of the money making pit of a precinct.

Red City developments is part owned by a Salford Director (I think) and the Reds will be charged very little to play there. I think ManUre Reserves may also play there.

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britishspud
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Post by britishspud »

yes, capacity is 20,000...with both seats and terraces.

as for salford, a couple of seasons ago the directors went on a scouting mission to oz with the view of uncover the next "great" talent.... and came back with the pledge to sign...........adrian morley.. which is great, but he won't come back here till he's 30 atleast...or when he gets booted out of oz for headshots :D

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Post by reece »

I think it looks a bit bigger then just 20,000 :shock:

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Jeffles
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Post by Jeffles »

reece wrote:I think it looks a bit bigger then just 20,000 :shock:
It's really imbalanced. But when you think that half the ground is going to be one tier (look at the last image) it could pass for a 20,000 seat ground. That is, 16,000 people on one side and 4000 on the other.

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IanRitchie
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Post by IanRitchie »

Jeffles wrote:
IanRitchie wrote:Perhaps Salford should ensure staying in the top flight before making up a stadium.
True, but apparently the ground isn't costing them a thing. It is being built by Red City Developments and includes a casino, hotel, shops, etc opmn the premises. The stadium is the community part of the money making pit of a precinct.
That's good. But with double relagation this year they could yet have the fanciest stadium in the National League 1.

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