Northern Ireland Stadium Report

[Egan]

http://www.scribd.com/doc/3479724/North ... ium-Report

This stadium report shows how politcised and insular all sporting codes are in Australia.

Highlights inner city sites as the only way forward for stadium redevelopment to encompass economic return for the city... - Eg AAMI Stadium long term does not make sense to redevelop. Adelaide Oval on a return to the taxpayer of the state makes sense.

Also highlights that for a multi-purpose venue to be successful it requires a code to buy in the rights for the venture.

It also states which effsee ribbed me about, the economic value that a city/state gets from decent venues. The model of Melbourne has made their economy a lot stronger...It was the Kennett foresight that is paying huge dividends.

It also requires all sports, regardless of their strength to approve the facility. Eg GAA, Rugby and Soccer stated that they support the development of this multi-purpose venue.

They also suggested a green fields site was the only way to get beyond the politics and to be a reasonable solution for all sports.

Waverley and this forum are sited. But the most interesting forms, is that it confirms the Major Stadia Taskforce that WA did that an inner city stadia is necessary and that public transport accessibility and entertainment precincts are vital for a major multi-purpose venue.

[nobleoz]

Interesting article, Egan. Fancy Waverley being mentioned. 2 things that make this a little different to our situation:

GGA, Rugby & Soccer are all played on rect fields. Combined use there is not the same as here.
Population of Belfast = 600,000. Think it would be easier to get a smaller stadium with good transport.

[Egan]

Yet also a stadium manager of a soccer club "couldn't imagine playing on a field as large as Croke Park...so far from the action". So rectangular codes also have issues in regards to different lengths of fields, in their context fans are more demanding than in Australia where we need various shaped grounds.

The realities are the political, social and cultural divide are huge. I am talking generally about if SANFL, WAFC want better venues, the Government will only spend significant sums of money on multi-purpose venues.

This report shows that they believe in order to get things done, you need to lose the holier than thou attitudes at the negotiation table.

This is an independent report and it suggests that there needs to be a foresight and negotiations for a positive outcome for all sports. South Australia and Western Australia should look at the outcomes that came about.

SANFL should understand they are on a ticking time bomb. The international and national evidence suggests upgrading Football Park is not the best use of taxpayers money...

That may be the real reason Rann stopped the 100 million dollar redevelopment going ahead...

[Egan]

Interesting article, Egan. Fancy Waverley being mentioned. 2 things that make this a little different to our situation:

GGA, Rugby & Soccer are all played on rect fields. Combined use there is not the same as here.
Population of Belfast = 600,000. Think it would be easier to get a smaller stadium with good transport.

International comparisons are essential when we look at stadia into the future. While there may be a little difference, the essence of this article and the reports done in Western Australia must be looked at as the basis of stadia development into the future.

Based on the reports, articles and information it would be advisablle that the South Australian Government if it does upgrade not do it at AAMI Stadium.

Nobleoz do you agree that report suggests that an outer suburban venue does not develop the desired economic return that could be stimulated by an inner city location?

[gyfox]

[quote="Egan"]http://www.scribd.com/doc/3479724/North ... url]Thanks for posting that link Egan... it states the rationale I have been using in selecting a site for my design for a stadium for Hobart[/url]

[nobleoz]

Egan - yes, the report recommends an inner-city stadium. Docklands certainly proved that in Melb. However, if you want a huge stadium, with parking, then it has to be away from the centre. If Waverley had been allowed to expand to 150,000 & the train extended, it would have been a different story.

AAMI is no further from the city centre than the Berlin Olympic Stadion or Wembley or Homebush. Docklands also proves the argument that you have to get one main sport on board at the beginning. Thank U, Mr Kennet!

The most interesting thing about this report is that it brings the 3 football codes together in Nth Ireland. Given the Irish nationalist basis of GAA, this is almost a miracle! In the Rep of Irel the GAA does not allow the "English" codes to use GAA grounds. They were flexible when they allowed RU to use Croke Park last year, when RU was redeveloping their ground (Loftus Rd?).

I have been to Croke Park, & the viewing was fantastic - & the game exciting. Gr8 atmosphere. Were the complaints from soccer & rugby because Gaelic Football is played on a bigger field than rugby & soccer?

[Egan]

Yep.

I did find this report miraculous. That is why it should be read by those with a holier than thou attitude who believe that not negotiating with other sports is possible.

I think the divide of sports in Ireland is similar to Australia. Moreso social/political in Ireland compared to geographical/social.

Millenium Stadium is 70,000...May Day Stadium holds 150,000 and is an inner city venue. You can have massive venues in the inner city.

"AAMI is no further from the city centre than the Berlin Olympic Stadion or Wembley or Homebush".

But that's not what I argued against. The best use of taxpayers money in terms of an economic return as the report shows, is an inner city venue. Is it not advisable that the SA Government looks at an upgrade of Football Park, because it does not deliver the same benefit to the taxpayer as a venue in the inner city and reduces congestion because it has numerous public transport options from the outer suburbs.

Provides the most jobs, the most tourists and the least environmental impact on the site.

I am one person who suggested that we should not consider a venue as sh*t because its not in the inner city. But the reports and evidence stacks up recently that multi-purpose venues must be built in the inner city.

I am debating for debating's sake, but can you suggest to me how spending $190 million developing AAMI stadium is a better long term interest for South Australian taxpayers than building a multi-purpose venue as this report and the Major Stadia Taskforce have suggested?

Also if Graham Cornes is reading this forum, I would suggest he reads the report thoroughly in terms of what is considered 'good public transport' access by International standards...

[nobleoz]

U are making a good debating point, Egan!

The Irish socio/poliical divide is a little different to ours. More based on Irish nationalism & catholic vs protestant. The only thing similar in Australia is the suggestion that Sydney decided to go for the British code of rugby because it considered the Melbourne game too nationalistic - as some have argued.

The justification for spending $100 mill by state govt on AAMI is that it is the only stadium that would be used by 40,000+ people regularly. Also it is a matching the SANFL's $100 - a common govt practice.

Multi-purpose stadia is not as simple here in SA, as everywhere else involves a rectangular field - & the rectangular sports don't get the crowds in SA to justify it. Proposing a WC standard stadium on the assumption that soccer will suddenly get those crowds after the WC is a gamble.

Does any stadium deliver benefits to tax-payers? It is doubtful if anyone (least of all City Council) want Adel Oval changed from its current state of a nice cricket ground in the parklands. All AAMI needs is that proposed railway extension.

Where is May Day stadium?

[deejaybee]

May Day stadium is in Pyongyang, North Korea.

http://www.worldstadiums.com/stadium_pi ... _day.shtml
http://www.worldstadiums.com/stadium_me ... _day.shtml

It's the biggest 'stadium' in the world. Was partly built to gain attention, as usual. This time from South Korea's World Cup 2002 bid.

However to my knowledge it is very rarely used, which questions its relevance as an example; especially if implying economic viability.

[beastjim]

North Korea might not have bidded but for the 2018/2022 world cup North Korea are a bigger threat because Australia does not have the infrastructure to cope with a world cup.

[deejaybee]

...for the 2018/2022 world cup North Korea are a bigger threat because Australia does not have the infrastructure to cope with a world cup.

wtf?
Mate, you've got problems if you think North Korea EVER will be a threat to Australia to host a major sporting event.


Furthermore, our infrastructure was sufficient for the Sydney Olympics, Commonwealth Games and most recently World Youth Day.

[gyfox]

U are making a good debating point, Egan!

The Irish socio/poliical divide is a little different to ours. More based on Irish nationalism & catholic vs protestant. The only thing similar in Australia is the suggestion that Sydney decided to go for the British code of rugby because it considered the Melbourne game too nationalistic - as some have argued.

Whoever suggested that is drawing a long bow. In NSW variations of the games of rugby and football were being played as early as the late 1820's. These games had been played for 30 years before Melbourne Rules was invented. They retained their popularity despite the formulation of the "Australian game" and formal competitions were commenced as soon as their rules were formally codified.

[nobleoz]

said like a true Sydney-sider

[nobleoz]

Various/different rules for football were played in all the colonies from the beginning. 2008 celebrated the 150th anniversary of the Vic rules...long before rugby & soccer. In SA we had our own rules. Eventually SAFA took up the Vic rules. Imagine if they had been invented in Sydney!

[deejaybee]

Who the hell cares about when any variation of football was earliest played, or where?

And for the record, the first individual Association Football club established was Sheffield F.C. in 1857, while the first Australian-Rules football club came about in 1859. Both of them were products from Cricket Clubs.

That's two bloody years.

Arguing about such a petty thing is pointless.