Burswood Park

Mr J · Post by **Mr J** » Fri Jun 06, 2003 5:34 pm

I was reading one of the old forum posts, and noticed that one of the big topics was about Perth getting a new stadium and where would it be placed.

If Perth is to ever hold a big event such as the Commonwealth Games we are going to need a Park fo somesort much like Melbourne and Sydneys Olympic Parks. At the moment Perth doesnt seem to have its things in order. We have Challenge Stadium out in the suburbs, Perth Oval in the northan part of the city, the WACA to the east in a horrible location which is barely accesible, and Subiaco to the West of the City in the now very strict Subiaco area. Subiaco cant get much bigger because of sunlight controls etc, and has the problem of having most of the people located on the ends of the ground instead of the wings. The WACA doesnt have much room to expand, nor should it since its the biggest White elephant around. Perth Oval is getting stuffed up as the designers put the ground to one side of the park area so it cant be expanded much.

Now if there is going to be the big event in Perth we are going to need a venue which holds 50 000+ at least and have training tracks and the major facilites pretty close to each other. The best location for this is Burswood. There is heaps of Land here to fit about everything you could possibly want. The new entertainment centre, new swimming pool and the new Perth Oval. Even better it would have some of the best views in the world, be close to transport and the city, and have its own world class hotel and casino so tourists can sqaunder there money. There could also be construction of a bridge to connect the WACA to the facinty.

Maybe 15 years down the track when Subiaco begins to start showing its age and theres not much chance of the capacity getting bigger, the Goverment will begin to look into the Burswood idea. The stadium would be alot more viable then as Perths poplation would be around 2 million, which will be boosted by the construction of the satelite city in the Yanchip area. Ive made a dodgey picture of my design of the stadium in photoshop, ill put it up in the next few days. So what are your thoughts on the Burswood stadium idea?[/img]

Dan · Post by **Dan** » Fri Jun 06, 2003 9:12 pm

It will take a major event to kickstart an Olympic Park type project.

-The MCG and Olympic Park area was kick started by the 1956 Olympics
-Sydney Olympic Park grew because of the 2000 Olympics
-Brisbane got the Chandler Sports Complex because of the 1982 Commonwealth Games

All these zones grew from a modest beginning Melbourne(MCG),Sydney(State Sports Centre) especially has some form of sports structure standing before they won their respective Olympics.The Homebush Area was pinpointed as an Olympic Site during the halfhearted Olympics bid way back in 1980!!! for the 1988 Olympics

I guess Perth has to start somewhere and set aside an area for a major sports event in the near future.Burswood sounds good to me..Secondly,Perth should look at Commonwealth Games as a kick start to boost their status....I guess this is the only way to give Perth an "Olympic Park" type complex.

perthsmike · Post by **perthsmike** » Fri Jun 06, 2003 10:11 pm

hmm, i agree with everything there, except for one small thing. The location. Although Burswood currently seems like an ideal place for the new sporting complex, the vacant land has been comitted to Perth and WA's biggest development. Im not sure if your aware, but Burswood just 3 days ago, signed a deal to build its second resort hotel, which will be built on the carpark located near the Dome. The "giant sandpit" or vacant area is the building lot for a new surburban development which will contain townhomes, units and 7 new residential tower some 25 stories. so that location is out of the picture.

the place which would be more likely though would be in the opposite side of the freeway, on the site of the Belmont racecourse. Here there is heaps of room for a variety of venues and yet still close to the city, casino and major hotels. it makes for an ideal location...

now all we need is a major event to come to perth... perth olympics 2032? perth commonwealths 2022 or 2026?? who knows...

mike

Egan · Post by **Egan** » Sun Jun 08, 2003 11:21 pm

There is enough land for that development and the Olympic park style development, oodles of land. I would personally think that any Olympic Park would be near Thomas Lake, clos to train station, great accesability and a population growing 4 times more then the rest of the city, the south west corridor is the place of development. Mandurah estate after estate spreading north towards city and south should be up to 70,000 in 6 years time from 50,000 now. Rockingham, Kwinana, Cockburn and close to Fremantile. By the time we get another commonwealth games. We will have close to 400,000 in the southwest corridor, much the same as the proposed satellite city of St Andrews. I can just imagine all the new stadiums funded by the owners of the land will build, it will be a technoligical society, based on communications to the north of the city, it will be our answer in australia for silicon valley in the United States. With mass immigration and high tech jobs being available.

Burswood is not the ideal location, the Causeway is the biggest load of crap when busy, although the Graham Farmer Freeway has alieviated to some degree. any day some1 suggests to push the button to demolish the WACA, ILL ACCEPT IT GLADLY

its a shame we have such a pathetic stadium in Perth.

I think Thomas Lake is the ideal location. No constraints on land as bush goes on and on for kilometres south. Thomas Lake best location for a Commonwealth style games. When the train goes through only 15 mins from the city.

Mr J · Post by **Mr J** » Sun Jun 08, 2003 11:42 pm

I disagree with u here, i dont know if its because your from mandurah or wat but i think making a olympic park down near thomas lake would be a bad decision.

It would be much like waverly, with it being on the outskirts and this deterring many ppl from going there. If your going to build a stadium it should be in the centre of the city and the centre of perth is...the city of perth as it is with most cities. Having it at burswood would really make it alot better as the views and general atmosphere would be alot better and alot of the infastructure is already there.

With future upgrades to the graham farmer freeway linking it to the tonkin highway, alot of stress would be taken off the causeway, and alot already has with the narrows bridge widening and graham farmer freeway.

Also at thomas lake there is jandakot airport near by which would create alot of annoying noise.

Waverly taught us a lesson about locating stadiums on the outskirts and it shouldnt be repeated. Think bout it if your in the northern suburbs (i am) you would be less inclined to go to a game alll the way in south perth aorund jandakot. I know i owuld be. This is alot of the reason why crowds have dropped at the new kwinna motorplex compared to old crowds.

Burswood is by far the best location.

As for perth becoming silcon valley, that would eb good as we might get a decent stadium and various other things we lack such as good fast internet (god i hate this 56k)

cam · Post by **cam** » Mon Jun 09, 2003 12:29 am

Waverley Park is (was) located in the exact Geographic Centre of Melbourne. So it's not the outskirts.

You always have the 'centre' of the city - the CBD, and the 'geographic centre' - the actual centre of the city.

Having said that, I agree that major sports venues need to be located close to the CBD.

Dan · Post by **Dan** » Mon Jun 09, 2003 8:27 am

"Having said that, I agree that major sports venues need to be located close to the CBD."

See..I dont understand this logic.In many cases around the world..yes.locate it near the CBD.Thats becasue the CBD in these cases normally are geographically the centre of the city,and also transport is geared directly to the CBD.
Waverley failed simply because it lacked public transport,and probably lacked shelter from the cold wind and rain.If we had a direct train line and roof coverage at Waverley,it would be still here today.The other thing about Waverley(75,000) is that how could it expect to attract the major events when there is another stadium in the city that seated 100,000.The AFLs (VFL)plan was to dump the MCG and play all the major games at Waverley.The ground was never finished and this never happened

Could you imagine a Sydney Olympic Park situation in the Sydney CBD.It would be a nightmare,and the Olympics would of been a joke transportation and traffic wise.

Locate the stadium in the heart of the city limits(Homebush,Waverley),build the right transportation systems and the venue will succeed..simple as that.

Mr J · Post by **Mr J** » Mon Jun 09, 2003 6:32 pm

Perths layout as a city is quite different to most cities as it spreads along the coast rather than go inland. SO having the park located in the south or north parts is alot different than doing it in say melbourne.

The Burswood unlike Sydney could handle the extra traffic and transport problems. Burswood isnt exactly in the city centre either and as Perths CBD seems to more sprawl to the west rather than the east. Subiaco is located in the west, buswood is in the east.

Having it down in Jandakot or in Joondalup would not work. Theres nothing there, and to build hotels etc...it would still look/feel somewould awkard. I personally wouldnt bother traveling all the way down to a mainly bush craphole, which is close to a prison and industrial areas. Joondalup would be the same, having to travel all the way up there to go see a game would be irritating.

Perths unique layout as a city, makes it uncomparable to Sydney and Melbourne etc.

Plus if u want a good stadium it should reflect the character of the city, and it beign in burswood facing west it would open up to the river and city.

tom · Post by **tom** » Mon Jun 09, 2003 7:46 pm

I tend to agree that the CBD and surrounding areas' is the best idea and it follows global trends, suburban stadiums have generally failed.
If think the Thomas Lake Idea is interesting but I think is would fail because of Bureaucratic red tape. The lake and it's surrounding areas' (includes Bybra Lake) are apart of a large lake system which is protected by some government agency who motives are to save the southern lakes from the fate as their northern suburb counterparts (Lake Joondalup and co.) which have been lost to the Mitchell FWY, Market Gardens or just filled in for development ie North Perth. These lakes are essential to the health of the jandakot mound (goundwater) and native fauna and flora. A development of such size and scale in the area would inevitably face protest. I know that this is a growth area for housing but I don't think that there is zoning for such a complex on enviromental lines. (I am Not a hippie but I had to learn this crap last year at uni).

On the side, I like Belmont park as a Stadium site. When Perth expressed interest in hosting the 2006 commonwealth games before Melbourne was approved as Australia's bidding city, the Perth plan based it's Main stadium and surrounding facilities there. Then as usual the cheap tools in the government pushed for Subiaco to be the main venue even though it would be far below world standard by 2006.

As for a Stadium in the CBD, I always liked the idea of building a stadium on the old market site in West Perth or Wellington Square. I studied the Market site for years and drew many renderings until someone bought the land, started building and wrecked my dreams.

Mr J · Post by **Mr J** » Mon Jun 09, 2003 8:41 pm

Where the market gardens are, is a good spot , but becuase of lack of room/ cost of land it would probally never go through. The proposed soccer stadium was to go just next to this, and i think thats the best hope we ever had or will ever have.

An interesting note about the transport problems, there are future plans to possibly build a subway continuing from the new subway down williams street which will go up to the waca adn then across the causeway and link onto the armadale line.

I think if this was to happen the waca may be somewat ok again, and if linked to the new 'olympic' park could be not such a white elephant.

I think there are also plans for the moving of belmont races to ascot which is the premier venue for racing now. This could be very interesting.

What is the destiny of subiaco. Is this as good as its going to get. It has no room to get any bigger plus the rules on it now are so stringent it cant expand. The waca well...theres just no point in making it any better/bigger, maybe only for the western warriors.

Is there much chance of there ever being a decent stadium in perth or are we going to have to stick with the crap we have at the moment. Hosting rugby and soccer at subi is a real let down for both sports. We NEED a new stadium!

perthsmike · Post by **perthsmike** » Mon Jun 09, 2003 9:35 pm

i still think that the best spot would be the Belmont Racecourse site, opposite Burswood (which by the time something comes here will have population of 7,500). however in relation to the type of stadium i would hope it would be something of the likes of Stadium Australia. A multi-purpose stadium with relocatable seating. A question, how does Colonial stadiums seating system work?? The stadium is oval in shaped during afl so how is it able to be moved to a rectangular shape? i know that Stadium Aus simply has its central wings which move in and out but colonials looks quite complicated. something of this sort would suit perth best, AFL all winter (eagles home games, screw the dockers) as well as glory and soccer games, rugby and special events, event athleteics if the call came for it.

Also interesting to note that an article was in the paper the other day, inside cover of the sports section talking all about this capacity thing. It mentioned in there that within a few years a new stadium or redveloped subi would need to be built, NEED to be built. Mayb the sudden surge of WA sport is triggering something! lol i hope so!

mike

tom · Post by **tom** » Tue Jun 10, 2003 12:56 pm

The Telstra Dome's seating works very much like Stade de France with the lower tier being on tracks so the stands can move in 15m. With the dome, because of it's oval shape, 4 lower tier corners are fixed and do not move in so making the capacity drop (I don't no how much) I think the change rooms are under these anyway. The wings and the ends do move though. The stadium is not a perfect rectangle though, it is just a far better configuration to the AFL setup. The dome was partially move inwards during the Australia vs British Lions test in 2001, only the ends were moved though to ensure that the capacity was as high as possible, 56000 turned up.

cam · Post by **cam** » Tue Jun 10, 2003 1:25 pm

The seats have only fully been moved in once - Melbourne Storm v Brisbane Broncos a couple of years ago. I was at the game, and it pretty much did make a full rectangle. It's actually the same shape as Canberra Stadium (slightly curved). The change rooms aren't located under the corner sections, they are on the wing. I imagine the corner sections would only have about 1-2,000 seats.

Mr J · Post by **Mr J** » Tue Jun 10, 2003 7:32 pm

So where are these 'rails' located. If they were below the surface as i would imagine wouldnt they rip the grass up when the stands move in. The ground whee the rails are located would have to be dug up so the stands can slide.

If we get the perth stadium it would have to have some sort of retractable seating but with most retractable seating they seem to need alot of work for the reconfiguration. Is there anyway around this?

perthsmike, i agree with your idea for belmont, but when i refer to burswood im including belmont in this. The whole park couldnt just fit into belmont but would strech over to the state tennis centre. I think the main stadium would proablly go on the belmont race course site as it would provide better backdrop and it would...well just be good in the way u would see it in the distance, sitting on the edge of the river at the tip of the penisula. Lots of parking could fit around the stradium too if not another stadium all together.

for the design i would hope something very simlar to stadium aus. Have a smaller lower bowl though, a 2nd teir bout the size of the current subi ones with 2 levels of corparate boxes on top. Then have a curved tier at the top. This grandstand go on the wing. On the eastern end the lower bowl would continue and the 2nd teir would continue but with no boxes. it would be roofed simlar to stadium aus. The western end would have a big hill which would allow everyone to see the city and the river in all its glory.
The capacity would probally be 70 000 odd. Ill get to work when i get some time on some drawings for this in photoshop. How would u picture the stadium?

tom · Post by **tom** » Wed Jun 11, 2003 1:41 pm

The Belmont Park site could fit such a complex and not have to spill over the FWY to the state tennis centre. Belmont Park is huge!, Disneyland could fit on the block.