The Rugby Thread

Talk about Australian Sport.
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Postby swede » Tue Apr 07, 2009 10:55 pm

AndrewM wrote:There are some aspects of
traditional
rugby which I miss, realmauls and rucking but I think that Super 14 continuing to use the ELV's in some shape is a good idea. personally I think the speed of the ELV game can only make the players of S14 countries better at the international level against the
others
[/i]


The ELVs were a joke, and its sad that the IRB functions in a way where it takes so long to get rid of bizarre ideas created by freaks among themselves.

how could any good come from allowing mauls to be pulled down? who could dream up this? Its fine to experiment (even if rugby is in great health and growing rapidly as major sport) but not by creating what must be some of the worst changes ever developed in any sport.

They should do the exact opposite. Force defenders to commit players at the breakdown. This creates the tough physical battles that rugby should be proud of, not afraid of, while also creating space for quick moves away from it.

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Postby AndrewM » Thu Apr 09, 2009 1:00 am

So how do you suggest that rugby moves forward? Leave it up to the home nations to show us The One True Way? Given that they weren't even interested in trialling the ELV's it looks like we'll be seeing their mind-numbing rugby for years to come. I'm not saying the ELV's are perfect, but they certainly make for a game which at least has some excitement and could even make an Aussie Rules fan convert.

Arguably, even the most tradition-bound of games, Cricket, is moving forward, finding new ways to widen its appeal. WG Grace I'm sure would be excited to see where Cricket is today but I doubt the young William Webb Ellis would be so proud of rugby.
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Postby Jeffles » Thu Apr 09, 2009 9:29 am

The ELVs show the difference in approach for each hemisphere. I don't think it is a surprise that Australia advocates them so heavily. Australian consumers want to see more action and faster play. In terms of most indicators, RU is a distant 4th of the 4 football codes in Australia and the ARU probably sees the ELVs as a way of catching up with the competing codes.

Other nations such as those on the British Isles have strong RU niches and do not need to change to keep pace with competitors.
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Postby Simmo79 » Thu Apr 09, 2009 9:41 am

yep, NH complacency is hurting the ARU. The downside of being a Global Game I guess
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Postby Wally » Thu Apr 09, 2009 2:02 pm

swede wrote:
AndrewM wrote:There are some aspects of
traditional
rugby which I miss, realmauls and rucking but I think that Super 14 continuing to use the ELV's in some shape is a good idea. personally I think the speed of the ELV game can only make the players of S14 countries better at the international level against the
others
[/i]


The ELVs were a joke, and its sad that the IRB functions in a way where it takes so long to get rid of bizarre ideas created by freaks among themselves.

how could any good come from allowing mauls to be pulled down? who could dream up this?


Because it is a completely f***ing terrible rule. Apart from the fact it has negative effect on the game as a spectacle, it allows players to literally shepherd the ball carrier. When if this was done in, god forbid, an actual backline movie the referee would penalise the attacking team.
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Postby Wally » Thu Apr 09, 2009 2:03 pm

The ARU and NZRU are close to announcing the fourth Bledisloe Cup test will be played in Tokyo. Anyone have any ideas where the most likely venue for this match will be?
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Postby Egan » Thu Apr 09, 2009 2:33 pm

Wally wrote:The ARU and NZRU are close to announcing the fourth Bledisloe Cup test will be played in Tokyo. Anyone have any ideas where the most likely venue for this match will be?


Yokohama would be the obvious choice. Hopefully the next Rugby Union World Cup is held in Japan...
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Postby Simmo79 » Thu Apr 09, 2009 2:35 pm

Wally wrote:The ARU and NZRU are close to announcing the fourth Bledisloe Cup test will be played in Tokyo. Anyone have any ideas where the most likely venue for this match will be?


And another thing...

they've really devalued the Bledisloe in the eyes of a lot of people by playing it so many bloody times a year.
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Postby bazza » Thu Apr 09, 2009 6:42 pm

Jeffles wrote:The ELVs show the difference in approach for each hemisphere. I don't think it is a surprise that Australia advocates them so heavily. Australian consumers want to see more action and faster play. In terms of most indicators, RU is a distant 4th of the 4 football codes in Australia and the ARU probably sees the ELVs as a way of catching up with the competing codes.

Other nations such as those on the British Isles have strong RU niches and do not need to change to keep pace with competitors.


Yeah - to me it seems like NZ and Australia just want to play rugby league - but have the international element of being able to play against Wales and Scotland

The northern hemisphere is happy to play rolling around in the mud - because for some reason, no matter how dire the match, they still pull a crowd a Twickenham

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Postby Wally » Thu Apr 09, 2009 8:39 pm

Simmo79 wrote:
Wally wrote:The ARU and NZRU are close to announcing the fourth Bledisloe Cup test will be played in Tokyo. Anyone have any ideas where the most likely venue for this match will be?


And another thing...

they've really devalued the Bledisloe in the eyes of a lot of people by playing it so many bloody times a year.


Your right, three games is enough. But money talks.
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Postby swede » Thu Apr 09, 2009 11:27 pm

AndrewM wrote:So how do you suggest that rugby moves forward? Leave it up to the home nations to show us The One True Way? Given that they weren't even interested in trialling the ELV's it looks like we'll be seeing their mind-numbing rugby for years to come. I'm not saying the ELV's are perfect, but they certainly make for a game which at least has some excitement and could even make an Aussie Rules fan convert.

Arguably, even the most tradition-bound of games, Cricket, is moving forward, finding new ways to widen its appeal. WG Grace I'm sure would be excited to see where Cricket is today but I doubt the young William Webb Ellis would be so proud of rugby.


If the game is so mind-numbing in the north, how come its doing so well with crowds growing everywhere at all levels. Barely a week goes by without crowds of 80,000
Laws cant be changed just to lure interest from some AFL´ers, just like soccer doesnt double the size of the goal because som new followers might prefer scores of 9-7

I think most people would agree rugby could work better at the breakdown but it doesnt mean its in huge trouble or that all change is great.
The aim should be to draw defenders out of the line. The best solution is no doubt too technical for me, but the IRB have launched a multi-year study into the workings of the scrum, probably for safety reasons, and I suggest they do the same for evertyhing about the breakdown.

They should look at the NFL, that has lots of complicated specific rules and disciplined players who understand them. Rugby needs the same. There is too much confusion, interpretation or relying on conventions from the amateur era, that dont work well and then gets banned without alternatives found such as letting a player taste studs if he was killing the ball on the ground.

But still the game is great and as its outgrowing RL ever more, why take the game in that direction ? It makes no sense.

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Postby swede » Thu Apr 09, 2009 11:48 pm

Wally wrote:
Simmo79 wrote:
Wally wrote:The ARU and NZRU are close to announcing the fourth Bledisloe Cup test will be played in Tokyo. Anyone have any ideas where the most likely venue for this match will be?


And another thing...

they've really devalued the Bledisloe in the eyes of a lot of people by playing it so many bloody times a year.


Your right, three games is enough. But money talks.


its stupid and desperate short-term thinking and in the long run you dont make more money that way. each extra game adds less money, while getting in the way of development. Where will it end? When AUS v NZ is an annual 25-game sevens series

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Postby swede » Thu Apr 09, 2009 11:59 pm

Egan wrote:
Wally wrote:The ARU and NZRU are close to announcing the fourth Bledisloe Cup test will be played in Tokyo. Anyone have any ideas where the most likely venue for this match will be?


Yokohama would be the obvious choice. Hopefully the next Rugby Union World Cup is held in Japan...


Far too risky with likely poor crowds. the football world cup 2002 had many poor crowds. would rugby really do better?

I would say Italy, centred in the north, right next to the french rugby heartland. Its both safe and expansionist and with Juventus new stadium as well as genoa and the san siro in Milan the venues should be there.

some games could possibly be taken over the border to France or even northern Spain or Switzerland, which has already seen european cup rugby

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Postby Egan » Fri Apr 10, 2009 8:04 pm

Timed my cheap flight to Perth perfectly with it being on the same weekend as the last Force home game of the year 8)
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Postby AndrewM » Sat Apr 11, 2009 1:40 am

swede wrote:
Egan wrote:
Wally wrote:The ARU and NZRU are close to announcing the fourth Bledisloe Cup test will be played in Tokyo. Anyone have any ideas where the most likely venue for this match will be?


Yokohama would be the obvious choice. Hopefully the next Rugby Union World Cup is held in Japan...


Far too risky with likely poor crowds. the football world cup 2002 had many poor crowds. would rugby really do better?

I would say Italy, centred in the north, right next to the french rugby heartland. Its both safe and expansionist and with Juventus new stadium as well as genoa and the san siro in Milan the venues should be there.

some games could possibly be taken over the border to France or even northern Spain or Switzerland, which has already seen european cup rugby

Your true colours are coming through Swede. Rugby needs to expand outside its traditional strongholds - and no, the traditional rules aren't going to do that either. Just look at the state of international rugby league. I was against NZ getting the RWC in 2011, France in 2007 and even Australia in 2003 (even though I went to all the Pool games held in Perth). Give it to the unions that need the world cup to help springboard into being truly competitive international teams, especially those that don't have the access to the competitive blocks such as six nations or tri nations. Like the USA and Canada, Argentina and Urguay and Japan. They need it, we (ie the SANZAR and six-nations countries) don't.

The one good reason for NZ getting the 2011 RWC is it that it will get the financial reward it deserves for maintaining the best brand in Rugby - the All Blacks, something the NH nations have reaped the benefit from for years and returned the favour by sending south their second rate teams.
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