I don't think there's been any real split off of Swans fans to the Giants. Anecdotally, judging by the discussions on bigfooty, redandwhiteonline and the GWS indy forum it doesn't look like any significant numbers of Swans fans have jumped ship. Reputedly there are people who have memberships for both clubs but again, not many people. Compare that to SFCU where the anecdotes are being passed on of part-time or former SFC fans moving to join the Wanderers. And it makes sense objectively: why would you quit following a 138 year old club, that has history, character and a cool nickname (bloods) and is reliably a finals contender to follow a new franchise?

The GWS fans on bigfooty surveyed themselves to find out what their histories were and a big majority of them supported interstate clubs but wanted to commit fully to another local club, but didn't like the Swans.

I know where you're coming from with the Swans not filling the SCG but it's not as simple as not "selling out". The re-categorisation of seats throughout the SCG has meant that only a small number now are the cheapest GA and a really large proportion are the expensive categories. It's similar to when BR upped their ticket prices a few seasons ago, but the Swans' is more of a bracket creep effect.

If there has been a significant drop in Swans crowds, I'm not really convinced it represents a true drop-off in the size of their fanbase. Any statistical loss should be chalked up to a drop in media exposure. AFL only gets a small cut of Sydney's sports coverage but now the Swans have to share half of it. Remember when MH joined the A-League and they added 6k fans but MV lost 6k off their average? It wasn't because 6k MV left and joined Heart, it was 6k worth of media exposure that MV lost. The tards could get those people back under the right circumstances. And the Swans will pull their punters back - they just have to work harder to cut through into public consciousness.

BTW does anyone have TV ratings for recent Giants games? (Sydney ratings, not Melbourne's).

I have to disagree with the small target strategy. It's tempting to try and ride out a crappy period with as little embarrassment as possible but the alternative is worse. Irrelevance is death.

The one advantage being an A-League fan has over being an AFL fan is that we've learnt the hard way to recognise failure before it happens. It takes more than poor on-field performances to fail. It's the lack of public interest that kills. NQF and GCU didn't break into their communities' public consciousness. They started with small crowds. Small crowds means poor word-of-mouth. Small crowds means lack of media interest. Lack of media interest creates even smaller crowds. It's a vicious cycle. If you suck, at least make sure people are talking about you sucking. It's much better than being ignored because then people will be interested when you come good.

If the Giants want to emulate the Swans then they need to generate a much larger latent fanbase. They need people watching them on the telly. They need sympathy and empathy. They need to generate a reputation. They need to become loveable losers. Hiding from the public will prevent them from developing a fanbase. Many people on Bigfooty and other forums assume that the Giants are just going to develop a fanbase simply because they exist. But no expansion club has managed to generate a fanbase out of thin air and certainly not when their principal competitor is sitting on top of their league's ladder.

The Giants need all the publicity they can get.

Following on Simmo's point, even when the swans were *sh*t* in the early 90s people knew who they were. They were the biggest losers in the country, and they were our losers.

GWS's problem is they might simply be nobody's losers. Wins like Saturday will certainly help, but they're gonna have to get more frequent wins or each week it's just gonna be the same story in Sydney media - Swans have great game, here's the quarter by quarter, all those names you know played well etc., oh, and BTW Giants lost. Again.

What was the reason though? GCU were better than competitive, they had an entertaining side (by A-League standards anyway). NQF were pretty ordinary, but no-where near the Giants level of shitness. No-one would have gone to an NQF home game expecting a 6-0 hammering. A world away from the Giants. Especially given the A-League needs to generate it's own publicity because it wouldn't get much otherwise. The AFL, even in Sydney, has a far higher profile and following.

But it's fair to say that Folau alone means their brand awareness in Sydney is reasonable, and the bulk of those people would know they suck. Of those that would possibly attend a game, most won't want to because they suck.



Don't agree. If they want to emulate the Swans they need to start winning games, and that's not going to happen until 2014 at the earliest (unless they can grab about 8 quality players from other clubs).

If GWS was putting on a good show, then by all means spend up big on promotion. But if you tell people to come and watch the Giants because it's great entertainment then put up the crap that they've been delivering all year, then you've almost certainly wasted your money because a lot won't come back. And it's not the promotion, it's the product.

Look to the Swans as an example. 3 consecutive wooden spoons in the 90's - sh*t crowds. Win games - great crowds. You don't need to spend much on promotion - the newspapers will do it for you. What do you reckon, 50,000 plus at ANZ this weekend? And it's not the ads on TV that will do it.

The worry for the Swans is I reckon they'll get ~30k for a massive match, where 9 years ago in similar circumstances they got 72k.

so, a team worse than gws?

how are the cold ghost doing?

Wrong thread for this post, but if the Swans get anything less than 50k for this game the club will be very disappointed.

Real chance for the Giants to get their third win of the season this week...

50k would be the highest attendance at a Sydney club game in all codes, wouldn't it?

when the swans were crap they at least they had Edilston promoting the crap out of it with any media stunt he could do....and they had Kappa who was also in the news as he was a bogan who was always at risk of busting out a jatz cracker from the shorts going up for a mark....i.e. shameless self promotion got support.......eventually....

GWS has Sheedy who means more to the AFL community outside of Sydney and Falou...who basically was a bad short term gamble.

Highest crowd in Sydney for NRL so far this year was 40k for Saints v Roosters on April 25
Highest crowd for AFL in Sydney has been 38k for GWS v Sydney in round 1

The Swans were pretty competitive when the had Eddleston and Capper - made a few finals

The problem that the Giants have is that the two regions of western Sydney that in recent history have had an interest in AFL are welded on Swans fans. The Hills district with its interest built originally on interstate migration and Campelltown/Liverpool with its interest based on the now defunct Ingleburn and the nearby Holdsworthy army camps each provide significant Swans support. Very few others out there have more than a passing interest in the game and then only in the brand they know, the Swans. Before interest in those regions developed in the latter third of last century it would have been safe to say Australian Rules hardly existed west of Pratten Park in Ashfield being effectively confined to the remnants of its existence in inner Sydney when Rugby League took control of the winter sporting scene in 1908. This being the case, where is the projected jump in crowds based on better performance going to come from. Looking at the large once a season turn out to a Swans - Collingwood game as indicative of a latent market waiting to be tapped is to not understand the nature of the crowd. These are not fans neither are they interested in becoming fans they are simply consumers of a bit of theatre who turn up to major events in all codes and sports. The Giants really have to grow a fan base from scratch person after person. If they can grow attendances by a thousand a year on average over the next 10 years they will have done extremely well.

If they can grow their attendance by a thousand per year for a decade they will have accomplished something unprecedented. The natural way of things for expansion clubs is to start strong and then go into a trough for several years.

People only have to watch 5 minutes of a victorian rules game to be converted for life
People in western Sydney have had no knowledge of the game before GWS existed