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 Post subject: Behind the Game: Brazil's long and winding road...
PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2006 1:42 am 
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In this, the second volume in my "Behind the Game" series, we go through the chaos and clatter that is... Brazilian football.

Even to fans of football, it would seem inconceivable that a nation like Brazil- which has produced some of the game's greatest players and five World Cups to boot- has over the decades could have so much trouble in organising a national football competition. Since the end of the 1950s, the story of national competition in Brazil has been a tale of different tournaments, changing formats and utter chaos and disorganisation.

But to understand the structure of football in Brazil, one needs to understand the evolution of football competitions in South America. Some might think that Australia is, or at least was, one of the few countries where sporting competitions were once largely state- or regionally-based. This however isn't exactly true- organising a fully national league along English lines took somewhat longer to do in continental Europe, and even longer still in South America. The stories behind club football in Argentina, Uruguay, Peru and other South American nations may be explained at a later date. The reasons for this are simple: logistics. Brazil is a vast country, divided into 26 states and the Distrito Federal. And each has its own FA, and runs its own state league. And clubs play concurrently in state and national competitions. Up until 1959, however, Brazil did not have an official national competition of any kind although regional tournaments such as the Torneio Rio-Sao Paulo did exist.

There was a time when virtually all of Brazil's major stars played in the domestic leagues, and those Brazilians who went abroad were usually excluded from selection. Between 1950 (when Internacional player Tesourinha played in the World Cup) and 1966, full internationals were restricted entirely to players from the two biggest state leagues: the Carioca (Rio de Janeiro city- which was then known as Distrito Federal and from 1960 to 1975 as Guanabara state) and Paulista (Sao Paulo). In the 1966 World Cup, selection for the full national team was opened up to players from the Mineiro (Minas Gerais) and Gaucho (Rio Grande do Sul) leagues. Players from the other state leagues weren't taken into account then- and though most of Brazil's best players play abroad, to some degree it's still the case today as comparatively few players playing outside the four biggest state leagues are considered.

In 1959, the year after Brazil won its first World Cup, Brazil organised its first official national competition- the Taça Brasil. The reason for such was to produce a Brazilian representative in the Copa Libertadores which would first be held in 1960. Initially the champions of 16 state leagues took part, and the first final would produce a major upset- Santos starring Pele and co were beaten by Bahia from the country's north. The following year, Palmeiras won the tournament but starting in 1961 Santos began its inevitable run of five straight wins. In 1966, however, Cruzeiro stopped the run by thrashing Santos.

By then, the Taça Brasil had participants from 21 leagues. These were:

Southern/Central Brazil:
Sao Paulo, Guanabara (Rio de Janeiro city), Minas Gerais, Rio Grande do Sul, Parana, Goias, Rio de Janeiro state, Santa Catarina, Espirito Santo and Distrito Federal

Northern Brazil:
Bahia, Pernambuco, Ceara, Para, Alagoas, Paraiba, Rio Grande do Norte, Maranhao, Piaui, Sergipe and Amazonas

On the outer were the leagues of Mato Grosso, Acre, Rondonia, Amapa and Roraima. Note that the state borders have changed since- Guanabara and Rio de Janeiro countryside merge in 1975, Tocantins was split from Goias in 1991.

The Taça Brasil was last held in 1966. However, in 1967 another national competition would be launched- the Torneio Roberto Gomes Pedrosa (or Taça de Prata for short) and would be held until 1970. This would be a "super league" of sorts for top clubs from the seven strongest state leagues.

In 1971, the year after Brazil won its third World Cup, Brazil launched its first official national competition, the Campeonato Brasileiro. In the years since, the format changed on a seemingly annual basis but what hasn't change is the chaos and extremely unwieldy nature of the national league structure. By 1973, as many as 40 teams were involved with a series of play-offs to determine the winner. By the early 80s, entry into the Campeonato was determined by performance in state leagues and then on "historical ranking". The 1990s saw yet more tinkering with the format, until all hell broke loose in 2000 with the unofficial Copa Joao Havelange.

In 1987 and 2000, legal cases led to no official league being held- instead, "unofficial" championships were held in their place thanks to the Clube dos 13 (Brazil's very own answer to the G-14). Since 2003, however, the Campeonato has been held in a more orthodox home-and-away format. But then again, you just never know...

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Apr 15, 2009 6:46 pm 
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I'm bumping this because I was wondering how on earth Brazillian football was organised. David V deserves a bit of belated credit.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Apr 15, 2009 6:59 pm 
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He certainly does.

I wonder how much better they would have fared in the old days if players from all states were considered.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Apr 16, 2009 9:41 am 
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Good question. I'd imagine that the best players from the smaller state leagues would have migrated to the bigger leagues (like WA and SA players moved to the VFL and Qlders moved to the NSWRL) so that the talent pool from those leagues would have been close to as strong as possible. And then the players who didn't migrate wouldn't be battle-hardened enough to be considered anyway...

the closest analogue for Brazil's struggle to find a national championship might be college football. After 120-odd years they're yet to find a satisfactory national system due to the highly regionalised set-up their leagues.

I like it like that though

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 Post subject: Re: Behind the Game: Brazil's long and winding road...
PostPosted: Wed Apr 07, 2010 11:03 pm 
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Bump again. I was absent from this plays for donkey years due to personal issues and prohibitive commitments, but I'm dropping by to say hi!

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 Post subject: Re: Behind the Game: Brazil's long and winding road...
PostPosted: Thu Apr 08, 2010 9:30 am 
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Welcome back. Anything else being written?

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 Post subject: Re: Behind the Game: Brazil's long and winding road...
PostPosted: Thu Apr 08, 2010 9:36 am 
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Welcome back brah. I've seen you educate the masses over at the Roar.

edit: since David wrote the piece I've read a book called Futebol: the Brazillian way of life. You can't underestimate the complexity, disorganisation and corruption that has gone on in Brazil's football league systems. Truly difficult to get your head around.

Now they have a straight 20 team, 38 game league, no finals system. Easy to comprehend, but lacks the Brazillian-ness that makes their league interesting.

Flamengo are the current national champions.

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 Post subject: Re: Behind the Game: Brazil's long and winding road...
PostPosted: Thu Apr 08, 2010 3:44 pm 
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Argentina's league evolution was more like this. Originally the major professional league was a purely "metropolitan" competition, consisting entirely of clubs from Buenos Aries, La Plata, Santa Fe and Rosario. Other cities had their own local competitions.

In 1967, a national competition was inaugurated. So clubs played in both the "metropolitan" league and the "national" championship for a practically year-long season. The Campeonato Nacional was made up of clubs from the Metropolitano and the winners of the Torneo Regional- although in later years the top sides from the strongest regional competitions were given an automatic entry into the National championship.

The 70s saw River Plate, Boca Juniors and Independiente have very strong sides by any standards- among the best club sides on the continent and, arguably, the world. This was before, like most other places, there was an exodus of stars to Europe. The leading side from Cordoba, Talleres, became a national force in the 70s, regularly making the latter stages of the Nacional and reaching the final of the 1977 tournament (which actually spilled over into 1978). They lost that on away goals to Independiente, but Talleres provided three members of Argentina's 1978 World Cup-winning squad. This demonstrated how good a provincial side could be against the "big city" sides.

Between 1980 and 1985 there was a progressive integration of regional clubs into the national league structure. Still, no club from outside the four cities of Buenos Aries, La Plata, Rosario and Santa Fe has ever won a national title.

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 Post subject: Re: Behind the Game: Brazil's long and winding road...
PostPosted: Wed May 05, 2010 1:16 pm 
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Quote:
Beating the drop by any means necessary

Tim Vickery | 08:05 UK time, Monday, 3 May 2010

Sheffield Wednesday fans don't need to be told that relegation is a painful blow, almost like a death in the family.

It is so traumatic that the major South American leagues have a history of trying to ensure that it never happens to their big clubs. There were years in Brazil when it was decreed that no former First Division champion could go down.

Even when this clause was not in effect, there were times when big clubs finished bottom of the table, and still stayed up. All kinds of strange justifications were employed to keep them in the top flight - such as scrapping relegation altogether to save Fluminense from the drop.

People in Brazilian football would argue, in all seriousness and with a totally straight face, that it was absurd for big clubs to be in the Second Division, no matter how bad their results. It was feudalism in action, the exact opposite of meritocracy of the game.

It is an indicator of how much progress the country has made in the last few years that this way of thinking is now obsolete. Even Corinthians have been relegated to the Second Division - and with over 20m supporters, this is a giant club indeed - and other big names have also fallen, including Palmeiras, Vasco da Gama, Botafogo, Gremio and Atletico Mineiro.

The Second Division has benefited enormously as a result from TV deals and greater publicity and there is no doubt that Brazil is more than big enough to support a good standard second tier.

The clubs have benefited as well and with the exception of Bahia, all have bounced back at the first attempt, stronger for the experience.

Argentina has a different system. Since the early 90s, in a bid to keep the interest level high, the season is split into two short and separate championships. The Apertura (Opening) runs from August to December, and the Clausura (Closing) from February to May, each with the 20 teams playing each other once.

It would clearly be unfair to relegate clubs after one campaign of 19 games, but using a combined total of points from the two championships (38 games) would surely be a fair solution. That's not the way it works, however.

The threat of possible relegation next year is hanging over River Plate

The perceived problem is that even the biggest clubs are forever selling their best players and are thus frequently caught in a spell of transition, when results can suffer as one team is deconstructed and another built. So, to protect the giants from the consequences of such a situation, relegation is worked out on an average of points accumulated over three years, or six championships.

This system helps the big clubs, but it's not foolproof, not if a transitional phase becomes an institutional crisis, as has happened with River Plate.

The Buenos Aires giants enjoyed their last taste of success when they won the 2007/8 Clausura, but since then the wheels have come off. Over the two championships in that season they accumulated 66 points, but in in 2008/9 they managed just 41 and with two games to go in the current campaign, they only have 40.

What has gone wrong? Coaches have come and gone, with no improvement in results. Traditionally a great producer of players, the club's talented youngsters have not been making the progress expected. Both are signs of something fundamentally wrong in the set up.

Supporters groups, meanwhile, have been battling for control, prompting suspicions that they may have been receiving a cut of transfer fees.

River's former great Daniel Passarella took over as president at the turn of the year and announced that he found the club in a financial coma. He recently appointed Angel Cappa as the new coach, an old style footballing romantic, whose preference for a pass-and-move game puts him right in line with the tradition of the club. It should be a perfect fit - and it needs to be.

River are not in immediate relegation danger. The two teams with the worst points average go down, the next two go into play-offs. Of the 20 clubs, River currently lie 12th in the relegation standings - saved by those 66 points accumulated in 2007/8.

But next August, when the new season kicks off, they lose those points. Only their disastrous results from the next two seasons will count, along, of course, with the points they pick up in 2010/11.

They will therefore go into the next campaign under pressure and if they do badly in the Apertura they could find themselves in a strange situation - needing to win the Clausura to stay up, simultaneously fighting for the championship and to avoid relegation.



http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/timvickery/2 ... ry_16.html

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 Post subject: Re: Behind the Game: Brazil's long and winding road...
PostPosted: Wed May 05, 2010 1:58 pm 
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Cheers Simmo.

I had NFI about the Argentine system. It's not all that ridiculous though it is foreign. The two separate championships in a season is a bit daft.

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Gonna be your man in motion, all I need is a pair of wheels
Take me where my future's lyin', St. Elmo's Fire


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 Post subject: Re: Behind the Game: Brazil's long and winding road...
PostPosted: Wed May 05, 2010 3:53 pm 
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I like it. Two intense 4 month seasons. It doesn't drag on and on. If Boca or River have a couple of poor results to start the season the tabloids can start their campaigns to have managers sacked almost immediately!

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 Post subject: Re: Behind the Game: Brazil's long and winding road...
PostPosted: Wed May 05, 2010 4:09 pm 
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i like the relegation system.

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 Post subject: Re: Behind the Game: Brazil's long and winding road...
PostPosted: Wed May 05, 2010 4:44 pm 
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Argentina is also one of the few countries without a cup comp so the split season helps by adding that extra piece of silverware.

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 Post subject: Re: Behind the Game: Brazil's long and winding road...
PostPosted: Wed May 05, 2010 4:48 pm 
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Imagine if that split season, sort of system was used in the EPL. Everton and Tottenham could have been close to getting a title in the second part of the season. Could help break the dominance of the Big 4.

I think the couple of season rolling rankings could help the A-League when it does move to a relegation and promotion system as we see teams often go to from cellar dwellers to finals contenders (Newcastle this year as a case and point). And to avoid too many teams actually getting relegated who have the funds available to stay up in the top league.

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