A-League second division

[jacobhalls]

I have been thinking about an A-League second division (A-League 2) for a few months now & have finally got around to making a new topic for it. Frank Lowy has talked about a-league second division a few times in interviews which he belives, would arose more interest & bring in the excitement of promotion to a-league & regulation to second division. I strongly support his case & think a second division would be great for football in Australia (& New Zealand, maybe not cause they will only have 1 team probably). More people would attend games to in-danger-of-regulation clubs & overall, it would bring crowds up.

The thing which i am most concerned & interested about is where the teams come from. Also, what we need to think about is how many teams should be in the A-League/A-League 2. I believe the 10 current teams plus Heart & Rovers to make 12 is right figure for the A-League but how many teams in the A-League 2 should there be? I think at least 10 teams (maybe even 12). That would make a total of 21 Australian teams & 1 New Zealand team unless you brought in Auckland again- but no but Christchurch should be thought however, remember the issues with wellington phoenix participating in A-League due to Asia/Oceania conflict.

Also i would like to know, when does everybody think it should be brought in? I think not until at least season 2015/2016 because by then clubs should be settled in at the A-League.

So here is a list of clubs who i think should be in a second division if it did happen. i have divided them into probable(my definites or close to it)/possibles. All populations are from June 2008 estimated by Australian bureau of stats posted on Wikipedia. :
QLD:
Probables:
*2nd Brisbane - with over 1.9 million people, Brisbane is easily big enough for a second side. First objections would be 'roar crowds are too small to accommodate another side'. however, if they improved, both on and off (administration) the field, support would be much better & city derbies would attract bumper crowds of 20,000 IMO.
Ground: Suncorp Stadium or redeveloped Ballymore, but Suncorp would be so much easier i.e. its ready right now, no redvelopments needed.

Possibles:
* Sunshine Coast - with a population of 237,000, it certainly has the people to support a club. However, it is quite close to Brisbane & would take even more Roar fans away & i don't no if the people of Sunshine Coast would really get behind, alike to the current situation of GCU.
Ground: a redeveloped (again) Stockland Park, which has been discussed before.

*Rockhampton - with a population of 75,000, there is probably just enough support for an A-League club. The point it has got going for it is that it is many hours away from any other A-League club, so it would have next to no competition.
Ground: will discuss later

*Toowoomba - with 125,000 people, there is certainly room there for a club. However, i think its proximity to Brisbane & major support for rl would be a major problem
Ground: will discuss later

NSW:
Probables:
* Wollongong - Population: 284,000. It is calling out for an A-League. Should definitely be in A-League 2.
Ground: WIN Stadium

Border of NSW/VIC:
Probable:
* Albury-Wodonga - with a population of 102,000, this place would easily support a club. No clubs too close for competition. Should get a club IMO.
Ground: will discuss later.

ACT:
Probable:
*Canberra - 345,000 people. Already proposed an A-League club bid. Enough said.
Ground: Canberra Stadium

VIC:
* Probables:
* Geelong - 172,000 people. Ground would be a major problem i think.
Ground: will discuss later

*Bendigo - with a population of 88,000 this has enough people.
Ground: will discuss later

* Ballarat - population: 91,000. This place would get behind a club IMO, same goes for Bendigo. Regional cities would really support these teams
Ground: will discuss later

TAS:
Probables:
* Tasmania United - we've already talked about this on other forum(s). already have a bid. Ground will be major issue.
Ground: already discussed in other forum(s) & they released a document giving options. Sorry don't have the link.
Or my preferred option of a Hobart side & a Launceston side. Would create great derbies & i think both cities are big enough to support clubs.

WA:
Possibles:
* 2nd Perth - with a population of 1.6 million, im not sure if they need another team but could happen. City derbies would be great.
Ground: MES

SA:
Possibles:
* 2nd Adealide - with a population of 1.17 IMO they wouldnt get behind a 2nd club. However, they will be an option
Ground: Hindmarsh Stadium



Give me your thoughts!

[Rob]

overall, it would bring crowds up.

They said the same about the final 6.

If a club got relegated, they would expect their crowds to drop by 70%, thereby condemning them to hell.

[RobertHeatleyStand]

Promotion / Relegation will not work in Australia.

[jacobhalls]

Who said the top 6 would bring crowds up? Why would it? Who cares?Its only an extra two final spots. As if that would increase crowds. Thats a dumb statement.

Promotion / Relegation will not work in Australia.

Why wouldn't it work? Give me some good reasons why it wouldn't.

[RobertHeatleyStand]

^^ It's just not in our mainstream football culture, never has been. In the same context that we rate finals higher than first past the post.

To suddenly introduce it to a relatively new A-League with many clubs already struggling for support would be to the detriment of football. Given we have 4 major football codes and many multi-coded supporters, clubs will not survive a stint in a second division when fans of the opposing codes can watch their respective team in the top flight, irrespective of how crap they were the prior season.

imo . . . promotion / relegation works in countries with one dominant football code.

[Spirit of Santos]

The B-League?

[jacobhalls]

You have a great point RHS but do you know any country of the same quality as A-League or better with only one league? No lower divisions? I don't think there would be many. Anyway, we won't get to decide if it is viable, only give our opinion, which FFA may or may not care about. Hopefully they do, even if only a very little.

[jacobhalls]

Lol at B-League but what does the b stand for? Bad? Brilliant?

[hot_dogma]

NO

[beastjim]

Like it or not we will get a second division because the AFC is essentially forcing us to do it, don't do it and we won't get the AFC Champions League spots and perhaps it could affect our standing in the confederation. Hopefully the benefits of being in Asia, participating in the AFC Champions League ect, out weighs the negatives.
A2-League is going to be hard for the FFA to set up, and there will be issues. The top flight league will have to support the second league financially but it is not unachievable with a good set of financial backers and a strong tv contract. The problem is finding the location for an extra swathe of teams who will run on a shoe string, which is what Jacob is trying to get at with this list. The thing to remember is that if these teams get promoted they need to be able to step up with both a decent team and support structures. A stadium that is basically a grass hill with a main stand may be good enough for the A2-League, but it might not be good enough for the A-League.
So for the cities I fully support a team on the Sunshine Coast, it is now the biggest population area without a professional sporting team of any flavour. The first team in up there will be a big success, but I wouldn't want to be second. Coffs Harbour could also be a decent option in a "North Coast NSW team".

[werdna]

Its all stuff of dreams right now but areas i think should be considered include....

Canberra
Wollongong
Tasmania
Darwin
Geelong
Christchurch
Auckland
Sunshine Coast
Sydney 3 (eg Sutherland)
Melbourne 3
Perth 2/Fremantle
Brisbane 2

Stretching the imaginination now...
Albury Wadonga
Cairns
Nth Rivers NSW (Lismore-Coffs)
Rural Vic
Adelaide 2
Nadi

[gyfox]

I think that the A-League will expand to 14 teams over the next 4 years with Canberra and either Tasmania or South Coast getting the last 2 spots. Depending which of them gets the last spot is which gets the first spot in the A2-League.

In my view the A2-League will start post 2015 Asian Cup as a mixture of planted franchises and existing clubs that sponsor franchises. The plants would be in locations like the Sunshine Coast, either South Coast or Tasmania, Geelong and the eastern suburbs of Melbourne. The existing club supported franchises would come from Brisbane, Sydney, Melbourne or Adelaide depending what bids they can cobble together. Perth, or more precisely WA, is too far away at the moment to be included in an A2-League. I would expect at the very least an Italian sponsored club to bid in Sydney and a Greek sponsored club to bid in Melbourne. Strong football districts that might combine to bid in Sydney are Sutherland and St George, Manly and Hornsby, and Bankstown, Fairfield and Macauthur. I don't know the Melbourne scene well enough to speculate on who might put a bid together but I would be surprised if SMFC didn't put their hat in the ring again. I believe the clubs would follow the franchise model preferred by the FFA for the A-League and as also preferred by the FFA member ownership would not be countenanced (at least majority ownership). The practice of excluding the traditional clubs from participation would cease but the ownership model would ensure that they are required to operate on the same basis as every other club.

Future expansion of the A-League would come from the A2-League clubs that prove themselves, in line with the FIFA Club Registration Regulations, on football merit and other documented requirements.

Future expansion of the A2-League might see two regional Leagues established to reduce travel costs with say the top 4 sides from each region qualifying for a knockout end of season A2-League Cup.

For an A2-League to work it would need to be on TV.

[wildcat]

I think a 2nd division can't happen until the 1st division is stronger, plus there is the issue of spreading out an already thin talent pool.

But as was mentioned earlier, FFA may have to put a 2nd division in, the role it will play will be interesting. They might just use it as a "development league" with no promotion/relegation set in place, if they ran with this I feel they would go with an east coast league, with teams based mostly in Vic, NSW, and Qld.

Current A-league clubs in these states could have feeder teams in this 2nd division, using players who are coming back from injury or are too old for the youth league The 2nd div teams could be based in cities nearby to the A league clubs (eg Fury 2nd division play in Cairns, Victory 2nd Div play in Geelong) Then have a couple of stand alone teams who already have bids for A league (canberra, Tasmania).

[gyfox]

Just as a point of interest for consideration during discussion on A, A2-League expansion, the FIFA Club Registration Regulations require each club in the top tier to have a full blown youth development system including at least one team in the 10-14 year old range and at least one team in the next age range up. When you add this to the NYL team that they each have you have a club with at least 4 mens/boys teams. It is also recommended that this system of club registration includes lower level competition so an A2-League club would almost certainly need to have this set up.

[yob]

Divisional competitions don't require a central authority to decide when and where teams go, the teams do. If they can afford to compete then... they do. set up the divisional structure, remove barriers to entry, then sit back and watch.