Ugh, this got ugly quickly. I thought you didn't want to get into a pissing contest Rob
Here's what he said, and I'm quoting. "Honestly, AFL is a minority sport in Queensland and that is how it will always be." Whether you like it or not Rob, that's the truth. For a sport that is obsessed with crowd figures, the fact that the AFL games on the GC have been drawing as low as 4,000 must be a worrying sign. Especially considering that they'll be having a team forced down their throats in just a couple of years time.
The AFL is no more obsessed with crowd figures than any other sport. Ever sporting league of any note pumps up it's crowd figures, at least when they're rising. It's just that AFL crowd figures are good. If anything, the AFL is obsessed with membership more than crowds.
You're missing the point. Look how much attention crowds get in the AFL press and have a look at how little coverage was given to the number of games played on the GC that haven't even come close to half filling the venue. Even with giveaways you are getting crowds of barely 4'000 and yet there is hardly a mention of it in the AFL media. As I said, it must be a worrying sign when they get such poor attendances after everything the AFL has said about support for AFl on the GC.
http://www.afl.com.au/tabid/208/default ... wsid=73208
In a game featuring the Brisbane Lions playing Richmond Tigers with AFL superstars Voss and Cousins, even with giveaway tickets handed out they could barely make it past 4K.
What game are you on about? There was a Brisbane v St Kilda NAB cup game, which I think drew about 7,000 or so. Are you talking about some practice match later on? And Voss? Mate, he retired a couple of years ago. He coaches now - you're suggesting people would come to a practice match to watch the coach?
This is the game Rob, played between QLD's only AFL team and one of the 'big 4' teams from Victoria. Whether you like it or not, Cousins and Voss are two of the highest profile AFl players/coaches. Indeed, Voss is the speartip of the AFL's push into QLD, he was hyped up as a player and then kept on as coach even though he has zero coaching experience. I think it's resonable to say that he is there purely because people know his name.
Oh, and I'm assuming you were mistaken and not actually lying but the Lions v St Kilda match drew only 6,013 people (again with giveaways). Link here: http://www.austadiums.com/sport/event.php?eventid=8928
Just to put it into perspective, NRL games on the GC before the Titans arrival, even those involving NQ and the Bulldogs, were selling out Carrara.
Funnily enough, so were AFL matches. Brisbane v Essendon a few years ago drew 15k. But, the more matches you play the interest drops. THe NRL were smart enough to only schedule 1 or 2 pre-season games and very few regular season games there - the Titans now struggle to sell out even 1 match. Not that I want to have a go at their crowds, they're not bad. But it's pretty bloody obvious that the more games you play the crowds drop.
Not that I doubt your word Rob but could you find me a source for that Lions vs Bombers game that drew 15K? Thanks. Also, just so you know 15K isn’t a sellout even in oval mode.
You are also mistaken about the NRL taking games to the Gold Coast. The NRL didn’t tell any clubs to take their home games to the Gold Coast, the individual clubs decided to take games there because the interest was overwhelming. That’s why there were only a few games played in the years before the Titans were admitted into the NRL.
The Titans have averaged well over 21K for their first two seasons in the NRL, and that includes the 2007 season when they were based out of 18K Carrara.
If you want to compare crowds at Carrara it doesn’t make for pretty reading if you’re an ALF fan. The last six AFL games, spread over two years have attracted very poor figures. 4,369 (2009), 6,013 (09), 10,037 (08 ), 9,128 (08 ), 6,354 (08 ), 4,134 (08 )
Note that every single one of those games had either the Lions or the Kangaroos playing. The Kangaroos games were played when they were being talked about as the GC’s own team. They had tv ads, newspaper ads and radio ads, not to mention the giveaway tickets, all telling people to get out there and support them if they wanted an AFL team on the GC. As you can see, even with all of that they still were pretty poorly received.
In comparison the Titans crowds for the season they played at Carrara are listed here: http://www.titans.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=9205
. They only dropped under 17K three times that season 13,644 aganst Canberra, 15,306 against Newcastle and 15,873 against the Bulldogs. The AFl’s highest crowd in 2007 was 11,647. Considering that the venue had a capacity of 18K that’s pretty solid support, certainly nothing like what the AFL games have recived.
It’s also worth noting that they played two home games at Lang Park in 2007 and attracted 42,030 vs the Illasox and 47,686 vs Brisbane.
The reason the Titans aren’t selling out every home game at Robina is because their ticket prices are not cheap. For the cheapest tickets in the stadium you’re looking at $29 for an adult, $21 for concessions and $17 for kids under 12. The reason that they are so high is that the demand is there and the Titans are taking advantage of it so they can build assets like this : http://www.titans.com.au/index.php?page_id=371
[But one outstanding question remains - if there are f**k all AFL fans on the Gold Coast, why do Prime continually show Friday night football live? I don't live there, but I am smart enough to make calls based on available information. They are under no obligation to show it live, so if no-one's watching as you imply why do they bother? It's probably the only area in the country where NRL and AFL is shown live on Friday night.
So this is the crux of your argument?
That's pretty damn weak. Do you have the ratings Rob? How does the AFL stack up against FNF on 9? I'm assuming that if they were getting half-decent ratings you would've posted it already. Not that it makes much difference anyway, I’ve seen Ten show professional bull riding before and that certainly isn’t a popular sport around here.
While over in Perth a pre-season clash between two Sydney NRL clubs drew over double that, and the NRL has been talking down adding a WA team...
Good on them. First game for a while isn't it? Try playing 5 or 6 games a year and see how big the crowds are.
I think that there might be another game or two in Perth this year. It’ll be interesting to see how Perths good support for a meaningless practice match will translate into supporting a game of first grade football.
Another worrying fact is that the Lions crowds and memberships have been dropping steadily ever since they stopped playing in GF's, while the Broncos have risen every year since 2001. The Lions have even been stuggling to sell their corporate boxes for the last few years and they're still advertising for this year despite the season having started. That's unheard of for the Broncos or even the Reds.
Gee, a team that misses the finals for 4 years in a row can't bring in the same crowds as when they win 3 flags in a row?
BTW, their crowds have hardly been consistently dropping. Their averages have been in the 28k range for the last 3 years. Given the Lions continue to be profitable and turn over more than the Broncos, I doubt anyone's too worried. If they start winning the crowds will probably improve.
The lions made it to four, yes four, grand finals in the last decade and won three of them in a row. That’s an absolutely amazing achievement. If they can’t build on that then they seriously have little chance of survival long term. You look at the Broncos, their crowd averages went from high of 43K+ before the Super League war to just 19K after it. They were hardest hit by the SL War yet their crowds have risen every year since 2001 despite only appearing in one GF (2006) since then.
As for the Lions being more profitable than the Broncos, lol. You really have no idea do you. The Broncos have no pokie farm nor do they receive any special grants from the NRL. How many tens of millions have the AFL pumped into the Lions in the last decade? I also remember reading quite a few headlines in the Courier-Mail last year about the Lions getting a million or two into the red. They were also trying to establish a pokie farm out in Logan not long ago before being told where to go.
Participation stats from the ABS tell an equally unflattering story. RL + Touch Football rates are 136'400 while there are only 28'400 AFL participants statewide (AFL in QLD is on the same level as Tenpin bowling).
That's like including netball in the Australian football figures.
You’re just showing how out of touch with reality you are Rob. Touch Football is a non-contact version of Rugby League. It was started by RL people and still has strong ties to the game. Do you really think that it would be anywhere near as popular as it is if it wasn’t for the strong RL connection?
Some suggested reading for you: http://www.rl1908.com/blog/touch-football.htm
It almost seems as though the AFL are going out of their way to alienate the GC sporting public. Using red as the main colour for the new franchise's singlets (when every other major GC team uses a shade of blue) and using a dodgy looking character called Gazza as the mascot. On top of that they're calling the team a Football Club, presumably because they were too inept to make a decision between Stingrays and Waves. All it is doing is supporting the sentiment that it's not a Gold Coast team, it's merely an extension of Demetriou's ego.
I won't disagree with you too much there - I think Demetriou is an arrogant turd of a man whose ego is about 5 sizes too big. He really should learn some humility and to now and again shut his mouth. Mind you, from what i've heard from Searle and Palmer, both of them are cut from the same cloth.
I find it amazing that you’d compare upstanding, successful businessmen like Palmer and Searle to an egomaniacal bogan like Demetriou.
It wasn't all that long ago that North Melbourne were offered $100M in incentives to relocate to the Gold Coast. If everything is as great as you are trying to make out then why did they turn it down? Maybe the support isn't there? Maybe, just maybe, not everything the AFL PR department says is true.
Where did I say everything was great? I was just making the point that there is clearly sizable support for football in that area. BTW, North turning down the GC offer had nothing to do with the attractiveness of the offer. AFL clubs generally fight tooth and nail against mergers and relocations unless their situation is utterly hopeless. North's wasn't, they weren't given the option of relocation or bust.
If the AFL took away the CBF grant to North Melbourne next year would they break even? It seems like a massive folly to stay in a saturated and shrinking market in Melbourne, living off the scraps from the bigger clubs, than to relocate to the Gold Coast.
If even half of what we were all told about the support for AFl on the Gold Coast was true then they’d be in a much better off position. Surely relocation is a better option than dying, it's not like they'd be the first AFL team to relocate.