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PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2006 1:42 pm 
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Dang! I was hoping you wouldn't get my sly reference. :lol:

I notice that whenever someone talks crap about Australian Rules and/or the AFL on that forum if I make a reply I never get a person arguing back against me as I usually make them look like dickheads in the first place by offering facts rather than fallacy.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2006 1:50 pm 
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Yes, I didn't have anybody argue against me...but I was making fun of people because they didn't know who Nick Davis was...

I still find that quite remarkable and incredibly sad, 24 years in and people in Sydney still don't know a person who gave Sydney a Premiership...regardless if they are an AFL supporter or not.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2006 2:01 pm 
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hot_dogma wrote:
Someone should show this thread to the dunderheads on SFCU who think Aussie rules only started in Sydney in 1982.


It's not only them. It's endemic in all the ignorant outposts of forum-land. LU is another big one.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2006 5:11 pm 
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hot_dogma wrote:
Someone should show this thread to the dunderheads on SFCU who think Aussie rules only started in Sydney in 1982.


I hope we score at least one against CCM so I can direct a beer shower right in your direction for that (unintended) slight!

From memory, you're in the back row of 23 on the right?

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2006 10:56 pm 
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Simmo79 wrote:
hot_dogma wrote:
Someone should show this thread to the dunderheads on SFCU who think Aussie rules only started in Sydney in 1982.


I hope we score at least one against CCM so I can direct a beer shower right in your direction for that (unintended) slight!

From memory, you're in the back row of 23 on the right?


Stalker!!!!!!!!

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 23, 2006 10:43 am 
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Who me?

(look out for a creep wearing a sky blue trenchcoat, sky blue sunnies, sky blue beanie standing in the carpeted area right behind your seat. I'm gonna pour a beer right on your head after a goal and declare that "that's for an indirect unintended insult on an internet forum that was not aimed at me personally but a class of persons of which I am a member!!!)


[I only know where you sit because of tim.'s seating list. Found out where everybody I recognise is standing this season. I'm in the seat right in front of JtG - looking forward to having megaphone >>> ear].

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 30, 2006 1:17 pm 
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Terrific article in today's Australian, explaining just how close Melbourne and Sydney (and hence Australia) came in the 19th century (with further attempts in the early 1900's and 1930's) to having a united code of Australian football - it would have succeeded had it not been for the English public school-educated rah-rahs of the NSWRU :evil: They should never be forgiven -

Storm, Sydney symbols of vision generated in the distant past

Sean Fagan explains the significance of the Sydney Swans and Melbourne Storm playing in their respective grand finals (Sean Fagan is the author of The Rugby Rebellion - The Divide of League and Union)

September 30, 2006 The Australian

WHAT an ironic double it will be, if the Sydney Swans and Melbourne Storm win their respective grand finals this weekend. For more than 130 winters, football administrators in Sydney and Melbourne have dreamed of the day when their game would hold supremacy in their rivals' metropolis.

In the late 1870s, Melbourne's Carlton and Sydney's Waratahs played each other in a series of matches under Australian football and rugby union laws. Their goal was to showcase the finer attributes of both games, in the hope of forging a hybrid football code for Australia. The matches attracted enough interest for the Waratahs and the Sydney University clubs to put to the NSWRU that scrums and unlimited running with the ball should be removed from rugby. It was essentially a vote to merge the two codes. However, by a mere handful of votes, the largely English public school-educated NSWRU officials, rejected the changes. The Waratahs left the NSWRU in disgust, and helped to establish an Australian football club competition in Sydney that flourished through the 1880s.

In the meantime, the NSWRU regularly dismissed proposals from the Victorian Football Association for a "merged rules" contest between the colonies. Ultimately frustrated, the VFA went it alone. In 1881, a crowd of more than 5000 attended the SCG to see Victoria thrash the best of the fledgling NSW Australian football players. Staggered by the support shown for the inter-colonial contest, the NSWRU quickly engaged with rugby union bodies in New Zealand, arranging for a NSW team to cross the Tasman at the end of the 1882 season and begin a regular interchange of visits.

Meanwhile, in Brisbane, a hot battle was taking place between the two codes for the loyalty of the city's footballers. Sensing an opportunity, the NSWRU offered to pay the costs of the Brisbane players to visit Sydney - provided they agreed only to play rugby union. The first NSW-Queensland rugby union match duly took place, with victory going to the home team. In 1883, the NSW team returned the favour by travelling to Brisbane. The Queenslanders achieved a surprise win, and almost overnight footballers flocked to the rugby code - success over the "mother colony" proving to be a telling allure.

For the next two decades, both codes dabbled in each other's territory, in the hope of expanding their realm. For a short time, a Victorian rugby union team saw the light of day, but, like the Australian football club competition in Sydney, it withered away. The years immediately after federation quickly changed the attitude of many - no longer colonial Britons, but Australians. In 1903, a small group of men thought it was time Sydney football fully embraced "the Australian game".

Led by Test cricketer Victor Trumper, and NSW politician (and former Tasmanian) Edward O'Sullivan, an 11-club Australian football competition was formed. They argued that it was time NSW supported its own Australian-born code. A mid-season showcase-match at the SCG between Fitzroy and Collingwood suggested O'Sullivan had hit the target. More than 26,000 spectators flocked to the ground. It was a spectacular result in terms of Sydney crowds. Australia's first rugby union Test against New Zealand only weeks later attracted just 4000 more (and that was a record for a Sydney Test). The VFL instructed the two Melbourne clubs to leave the gate-money behind, so it could be spent in Sydney on expanding the code. Much of the money went towards employing 'lecturers', who visited schools to teach the finer points of the game, and leave a football behind for the boys' use. The investment paid off. By the winter of 1905, rugby's hold on schools and juniors had been cut in half as youngsters embraced the alternative of Australian football - including Dally Messenger's two younger brothers.

NSWRU officials were startled by the trend, but could do little to prevent it. Many openly admitted rugby was on the wane, and they were facing a real challenge to hold the support of the city. However, during the 1905-06 summer, the New Zealand 'All Blacks' toured Britain - their astonishing success and popularity garnered pound stg. 10,000 for the NZRU. With the annual wages of a working man rarely topping pound stg. 100, the news caught everyone's attention. Trumper joined with Sydney entrepreneur James J Giltinan, and turned away from Australian football. They laid plans to start a professional rugby league club competition, with the objective of taking their own team to Britain and sharing in the rich profits on offer. They also schemed with men in Melbourne, Brisbane and Adelaide to establish professional clubs to take up the new code.

Led by Messenger, Sydney's working-class footballers and their supporters spurned rugby union and Australian football, and joined rugby league. Upon forming the NSWRL in Sydney in August 1907, Giltinan immediately opened negotiations with Melbourne's John Wren, the famed sporting promoter and Collingwood Magpies patron. They began organising a rugby league match in the southern city between NSW and the New Zealand 'All Golds' team. Both entrepreneurs also envisaged the possibilities (more the money) that a NSW-Victoria interstate football match could bring. Their initial plan was thwarted by the late arrival of the New Zealanders in Australia, leaving no time for the Melbourne match before the 'All Golds' were due to join their ship for England.

In late 1908, Giltinan took the opportunity to meet Australian football officials, in the hope of persuading them to open talks to create a hybrid national football code with rugby league. He also suggested that he could convince rugby league in New Zealand and England to join the scheme. This would lead to Australia's best footballers, from all states, playing in winter Test matches in Sydney and Melbourne on a scale that would out-rival cricket for interest. The Victorians agreed to examine Giltinan's ideas, and by 1914 serious plans were in place to initiate the merger. The sudden advent of World War I shelved the concept. It was revived again in 1933, and talks progressed so well between the NSWRL and VFL that a secret trial game was held between NSW and Victorian teams at the Sydney Showground.

Ultimately, both the VFL and NSWRL were dissuaded by fear; if the new code was not an instant and all-encompassing success, they would have in effect created a third football code that would have diluted their own support. Both codes retreated into their own territory for the next half a century, before beginning to establish one-city and interstate clubs, and ultimately expanding into their opponent's home city. The two codes may now be achieving their long-held dreams, but in the process they have opened the door to their rivals.

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 30, 2006 8:40 pm 
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English public school led Rugby Union has f***ed up alot of things and i would have loved it if there was no Union,League,Gaelic and AFL but just one code between the 4.God if it happend back then in the late 1800's or 1930's do you think New Zealand and the All-Blacks would have joined the new code.

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 30, 2006 9:10 pm 
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Suedehead wrote:
English public school led Rugby Union has f***ed up alot of things and i would have loved it if there was no Union,League,Gaelic and AFL but just one code between the 4.God if it happend back then in the late 1800's or 1930's do you think New Zealand and the All-Blacks would have joined the new code.


How f***ing boring to only have one code to watch.

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 30, 2006 10:01 pm 
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Jeffles wrote:
Suedehead wrote:
English public school led Rugby Union has f***ed up alot of things and i would have loved it if there was no Union,League,Gaelic and AFL but just one code between the 4.God if it happend back then in the late 1800's or 1930's do you think New Zealand and the All-Blacks would have joined the new code.


How f***ing boring to only have one code to watch.


Well it seems like that these days with f***ing Soccer jeffles.I still think there are too many codes in OZ and one will give.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 01, 2006 10:31 am 
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Well you have no idea then. Soccer's national league apppeared to "give" a few years back yet the code was never going to disappear in this country. As it turns out, the code is back better than ever and I'm bloody glad it is.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 01, 2006 8:31 pm 
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"Thanks to all youse, our fans. You were brigilant." - B Kirk

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2006 2:57 am 
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I would have loved to see the likes of Wally Lewis,Blocker,Campese and Gary Ablett play on the same field against the likes of John Kirwin and Micheal Jones of the All-Blacks.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 15, 2007 11:30 pm 
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BUMP!

This year's Ralph Robertson Lecture will feature a subject close to many hearts here on austadiums - State Of f***ing Origin.

http://www.aflnswact.com.au/default.asp ... aid=124814

Looking forward to footage of the 1990 game!

sandyhill, can you make it to Sydney this time? :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Sydney AFL History
PostPosted: Thu Aug 16, 2007 10:58 am 
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sandyhill wrote:
On a different track, I think this article also explains why Sydney eventually needs another AFL club, based in the Western suburbs of Sudney, with its different demographics than the Swans supporters, in order to again "redefine the code's image" in Sydney -

"...Although Rugby League became more popular than Australian Football, working class players continued to swap between the two with a South Sydney rover by the name of Jim Stiff being the most famous example. Jim was voted best player at the 1933 National Australian Football Carnival. Four years later, he was chosen to tour with the Australian Rugby League. As for Sydney sports fans ...there was little hostility to Australian Football. As late as 1930, there was still high-level discussions about unifying Australia's two professional football codes.

The standard of Sydney footy was quite a high standard right until the 70s. In 1972, the NSW team, which contained predominantly of players from the Sydney league, beat the VFL seconds by 77 points. There was also a deal of spectator popularity. Games were played on enclosed grounds with gates, turnstiles and brick grandstands. Home and away games weren't huge but grand finals were played in front of 12,000-strong crowds.

However, this goodwill all changed in 1982 when the South Melbourne Swans relocated to Sydney and became known as the Sydney Swans. As the public face of Australian Rules in Sydney, the club redefined the code's image. Instead of being seen as working class, Football became associated with chardonnay, ballet and yuppies. 105 years of Australian Rules in Sydney was wiped clean and instead League fans viewed the game as a recent Melbourne import. Local clubs folded or amalgamated, grounds were rationalised or demonlised. ... despite making some inroads in the affluent market, the Swans were still unable to penetrate Sydney's working-class psyche. ...


I must admit, the feeling is similiar (although not as strong up here) I only just found this thread but it is a good read. nice work jeffles, sandy.

Went the the afl the other wk (lions v roos @ gabba), and made sure i told a few people about it just to see thier responses. the general answers were

Myself: Im going to the footy this wkend
Others: Oh really? whos playing again?
M: Lions v kangaroos
O: oh?
M: lions v kangaroos @ the gabba
O: ohhhh! why are you going to that crap for?

Yes AFL is the australian code
Yes AFL is played across oz
Yes the lions have won 3 recent premierships
But
for all this it really annoys me that some people are so oblivious as to not care about it. yes people have a right to watch whatever sports they like, but if the afl wants to take a serious grasp on brisbane (and indeed sydney) then work must be done to change the image of the game.

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