Beginning of the end for suburban NRL stadiums?

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the crow
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Re: Beginning of the end for suburban NRL stadiums?

Post by the crow »

But that would make them the only team with a home ground....no fair!

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Re: Beginning of the end for suburban NRL stadiums?

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kilonewton wrote:
And the comparison with Melbourne is spurious. If AFL clubs were originally based in Frankston, Lilydale, Epping etc, a la Penrith / Campbelltown, then there would not have been the race to the middle that we have seen.
Maybe, but the differences are a lot more than that. Melbourne is a much more centralised city generally. They also attend sporting events, so the move to centralised stadia was more about accommodating those extra fans than anything else. It was predominantly driven by the league, not the government.

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Re: Beginning of the end for suburban NRL stadiums?

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I finally found the link to the strategy.

http://www.communities.nsw.gov.au/asset ... y_2012.pdf

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the crow
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Re: Beginning of the end for suburban NRL stadiums?

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So 2 AFL teams get 2 tier 1 and a tier 2 stadium....one which is shared with NRL... And NRL with 9 teams in the home code + 2 a league teams are put in the back seat...to let local council off with commitment....it seems NSW wants to go down the QLD road of stadium ownership and mgmt.

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Re: Beginning of the end for suburban NRL stadiums?

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Comparisons with the Melbourne experience as referenced in the report need to be considered carfeully. Windy Hill to the MCG is around 15km. Moorabin to Docklands is around 19km. I think that's the biggest move for a club between its traditional supporter base (not necessarily their home ground) and the ground it uses now. Every other Melbourne based AFL club moved a shorter distance (please correct me). I'm not counting Waverley.

The NSW government strategy will require club and fans to move greater distances. Penrith to Parramatta is 30km. Campbelltown Stadium to Parramatta is 35km. Brookvale to Moore Park is 20km. The succesful Bulldogs exeprience was a 12km move. South Sydney have seen success with an 18km move, although Souths fans complain a lot (no surprises, it's Souths).

This strategy relates mainly to to state funding. There will of course be ways to get around it. Federal and private funding come to mind.

It will be interesting to see how the Feds adhere to it. Limited budgets may force them to avoid a one of pork-barrell for Brookvale.

Some NRL clubs won't have a problem with the move. The distances aren't great. But there will be ressure from Penrith, Campbelltown and Manly to resist moving. These groups may try for alternative funding.
If Penrith ever get to the stage where they need more seats and corproates, could the Penrith Council and Leagues Club group direct funds to a development? A development that took capacity to 27,000 or so funded privately may be within reach of the group and they'd avoid the need to move (which on current crowds won't arise for a long time anyway).

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Re: Beginning of the end for suburban NRL stadiums?

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I actually think the capacity of most of the current suburban grounds is pretty spot on - it's the facilities that need improving. The one exception to this would be Parramatta Stadium. I think there could be scope for that to increase to around 30,000.

That way there are a bunch of grounds scattered around Sydney with capacities up to about 20k. Then if you need to jump up you've got Parra at 30k, SFS and SCG at 45k and Telstra at 80k.

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yob
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Re: Beginning of the end for suburban NRL stadiums?

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Boba Fett wrote:I actually think the capacity of most of the current suburban grounds is pretty spot on - it's the facilities that need improving. The one exception to this would be Parramatta Stadium. I think there could be scope for that to increase to around 30,000.

That way there are a bunch of grounds scattered around Sydney with capacities up to about 20k. Then if you need to jump up you've got Parra at 30k, SFS and SCG at 45k and Telstra at 80k.
Parra masterplan already envisions 30,000 capacity. I would love a 30,000 seat stadium bathed in red and black. It makes terrific television to watch Australian football against that sort of back drop, just like the Melbourne derby when it's played at the MRS.

I agree that Sydney calls for redundancy in its stadium offerings, and all that's needed is topping up existing facilities. Sydney is not centralised like Melbourne. It never can be due to its geography. Rather than demonise the suburbs and call for ground rationalisation we should be embracing them. The NRL has maintained a lot of that tribalism that we want in sport because the clubs have remained rooted in their communities.

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Re: Beginning of the end for suburban NRL stadiums?

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The report calls for only one tier 2 stadium in western Sydney. That either means a greenfields site for everyone (WT, Penrith, Parra, and WSW) to share or one existing venue getting the upgrade. Richard Hinds (who lives 845km away from Parramatta Stadium) calls for Parramatta to be the one and I think that would have the most political support as it has an existing facility to build on and has transport links. The biggest loser in that policy would be Penrith. They would lose 12 home games to a venue 30km away. For WT, one segment of their fans would have to watch one third of home games 35km away. Not as big a loss but quite significant for all this western Sydney talk.

Another loser I forgot in all this is Cronulla, whose ground is 26km from Moore Park and 28km from Homebush Bay, much bigger distances than Princes Park to Docklands. But like I said, it just means that if they want to stay in their region, they'll need to find funding that does not come from Macquarie St, so it isn't necessarily the death knell for suburban grounds.

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Re: Beginning of the end for suburban NRL stadiums?

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Jeffles wrote:it just means that if they want to stay in their region, they'll need to find funding that does not come from Macquarie St, so it isn't necessarily the death knell for suburban grounds.
Exactly. God forbid clubs actually take a bit of responsibility for themselves instead of looking for handouts...

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Re: Beginning of the end for suburban NRL stadiums?

Post by NRLandMore »

What will happen.

Pre-new Stadium:
Parramatta > ANZ
St George Illawarra > 6 matches at Win Stadium, 6 at SFS
Penrith, Manly & Cronulla stay where they are.

I would like to see South Sydney move to the SFS when their current ANZ deal is up and if the Wests Tigers are serious about moving away from their suburban grounds then I would like to see the Wests Tigers play 6 games at the SFS with 6 at ANZ. Any potential SCG game to taken from the SFS tally.

After a few decades when NSW finally gets that Western Sydney venue, you can play Bulldogs, Eels, Tigers there plus any big match up Penrith has with Penrith (majority of games) and Cronulla to stay where they are. You can also play all of Wests Sydney finals games in the first two weeks at the venue.

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Re: Beginning of the end for suburban NRL stadiums?

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Eels seek to be part of government stadium deal

Date
February 19, 2013

Michael Chammas

PARRAMATTA have held preliminary discussions with the NSW minister for sport, Graham Annesley, about the potential for a new "state of the art" stadium.

During the next few months, the NSW state government will begin investigating its options for the investment strategy they announced last year, which didn't include funding to upgrade the dilapidated suburban grounds.

The report that Annesley tabled outlined a plan to invest in major sporting venues like ANZ Stadium and Allianz Stadium, as well as the construction of a new ground in western Sydney or the redevelopment of either Parramatta Stadium, Centrebet Stadium or Campbelltown Stadium.

Eels boss Ken Edwards has begun the push for a new rectangular ground to be built in Parramatta that would see the region become the new sporting hub of the west. While specific details weren't discussed, Edwards made no secret of his desire to persuade the state government to invest in Parramatta.

Aiding their push for a new stadium in Parramatta is the meteoric rise, both on and off the field, of A-League's new boys the Western Sydney Wanderers.

The Wanderers have managed to average a crowd of 15,000 for their last three home games, and so strong has the support been for Tony Popovic's side in their debut season, they sold out of jerseys before Christmas.

The Eels have put in place a five-year strategic plan that, if followed out, will see them reach 40,000 members by 2017.

If they fulfil their plans, they will no longer be able to play out of Parramatta Stadium in its current format due to its 20,000 seating capacity. The state government will also consult Wests Tigers and Penrith when they begin their investigations in the coming months.

"We've talked about the strategy at some stage when the money becomes available," Annesley said.

"The decision of the location on a stadium in western Sydney needs to meet the needs of the west. We already have got a stadium in Parramatta with Parramatta Stadium, but the strategy didn't identify whether we would update an existing ground or build a new stadium. The western Sydney NRL clubs, they'd all need to be consulted and a view on the best location would be made."

The news comes after Parramatta confirmed a Fairfax Media report on Tuesday revealing the Eels and major sponsor Pirtek had agreed to part ways at the end of the season.

The Eels haven't begun negotiations to line up a new sponsor for next year but Edwards doesn't believe the Australian Crime Commission's investigations, which has already cost several clubs sponsorship deals, will impact on the Eels' ability to secure a naming rights partner beyond the end of the year.

"I can only talk on behalf of Parramatta, but I'm not sensing there's an issue for us," he said.

"I'm not saying there might not be an issue for others, but the board rooms that I deal in or have been in the last few weeks would indicate that people have confidence the NRL will deal with this and as quickly as possible."

The timing of a new deal could impact on whether the Eels are able to find a new major sponsor willing to pay the $1.5 million they are asking for.

If the Eels hold off on signing a new partner until later in the year and enjoy plenty of success under new coach Ricky Stuart, Parramatta's value could benefit from it.

But there is also the chance it could have the opposite effect if the Eels struggle to improve on their disappointing past three seasons.

However Edwards is confident the club will attract a major sponsor, regardless of how the football team performs.

"We're building a club that is not totally dependable on on-field results," he said. "I think Souths are a really good example of a club who have built a sustainable business model since they were re-admitted to the competition, without winning on the field."

Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-league/leag ... z2LRGOTxWn


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Interesting that Parramatta, one of the clubs with some assurances over the future of their stadium, is the one getting gung-ho.

Over on LU some bright spark mentioned that Eastern Creek near the speedway would be a decent venue for such a stadium. As he says it's at the junction of the M4 and M7 and is:

15 kms (21 minutes) from Parramatta Stadium.
23 kms (19 minutes) from Centrebet Stadium.
35 kms (28 minutes) from Campbelltown Stadium.
22 kms (21 minutes) from ANZ Stadium.
31 kms (33 minutes) from Leichardt Oval.
33 kms (35 minutes) from Belmore Oval.

It's equidistant from Parramatta and Penrith, and is smack bang between Campbelltown and Leichardt.

Teams are going to be pissed if you move them, but this ground could accomodate Wests, Penrith and Parramatta as a compromise. If was state of the art, around 30,000 capacity and perhaps with bells and whistles such as a roof - I'm thinking Forsyth Barr Stadium - teams could be enticed to commit to it. That way you wipe out 4 of the old grounds and replace them with one. Probably a bit far from Belmore for Canterbury, but they're doing fine at ANZ so why would you move them?

This would mean that Sydney would have:

Sydney Football Stadium - Eastern Suburbs.
Stadium Australia - South Sydney, Canterbury-Bankstown.
Eastern Creek Stadium - Wests, Penrith, Parramatta

Leaving only St. George, Manly and Cronulla as the outliers.

They're quite a tricky problem to solve because they are so far away from any of the other sporting facilities that using them would probably not work at all for them. St George and Cronulla, as much as they hate each other, really missed the boat by not co-developing a 25,000 seater in the South of Sydney. The money that's been dumped into Kogarah and Endeavour has ensured that it is incredibly unlikely for that to happen any time soon.

As for Manly. Hurry up and relocate. Sydney doesn't need your kind.

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Re: Beginning of the end for suburban NRL stadiums?

Post by gyfox »

Penrith is in for the extra Tier 2 stadium with a proposal for Mulgoa Rd.

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/sport/ ... 6582250902

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Re: Beginning of the end for suburban NRL stadiums?

Post by Boba Fett »

Eastern Creek proposal won't get up as its not good for public transport (no trainline anywhere near it).

The only viable option is Parramatta Stadium. Knock it down and build a schmick new 30k seater with the potential to expand IF needed down the track.

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Re: Beginning of the end for suburban NRL stadiums?

Post by NRLandMore »

Penrith & Wests Tigers won't play out of Parramatta though.

It needs to be a new venue on a new site that is most agreeable on by the NRL clubs.

Too close to Stadium Australia.

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Re: Beginning of the end for suburban NRL stadiums?

Post by gyfox »

Boba Fett wrote:Eastern Creek proposal won't get up as its not good for public transport (no trainline anywhere near it).

The only viable option is Parramatta Stadium. Knock it down and build a schmick new 30k seater with the potential to expand IF needed down the track.
The site proposed for the World Cup at BSIP is near Rooty Hill Station. They would have to relocate the athletics track though.

The Cumberland Oval Act that saw Parramatta Stadium bypass Justice McLelland's rejection of the 40k proposal for Parramatta Stadium limits the capacity there to 30k. Times change but wouldn't the objections from the "friends" of Parramatta Park hold sway again if a larger stadium was proposed.

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