New NQL Stadium
- the crow
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Re: New NQL Stadium
It's pretty obvious that it is...it's still a trade off between higher land cost but economic flow back to CBD business......compared to a stadium out in the sticks supported by nothing.
- Jeffles
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Re: New NQL Stadium
For 12 events per year. Maybe 18 with supercross etc? How much do these fans spend in bars in the city?
- dibo
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Re: New NQL Stadium
Egan wrote:Economics also suggest that the return to the government/economy is stronger for a stadium that is built in the CBD...Jeffles wrote:It's a cart-horse thing. They want this to be the first step towards revitalising Townsville, two words that on their own suggest the makings of an oxymoron.
You recognise the land If the land cost is double, the multiplier return needs to be a helluva lot higher for a city stadium. Add in the opportunity cost of not doing something more productive with the site too.the crow wrote:It's pretty obvious that it is...it's still a trade off between higher land cost but economic flow back to CBD business......compared to a stadium out in the sticks supported by nothing.
- Egan
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Re: New NQL Stadium
It's the whole picture, people now want to live near stadiums and become part of the communal atmosphere of the city.Jeffles wrote:For 12 events per year. Maybe 18 with supercross etc? How much do these fans spend in bars in the city?
There are a lot of reports on the Adelaide Oval redevelopment that shows how much more the economy will be stimulated than what a similar crowd at West Lakes is currently achieving...
- dibo
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Re: New NQL Stadium
Compare the benefits another way:
Over the life of both stadia, consider [cost of land aquisition] + [cost of development] - [direct return (tickets, catering, pourage etc.)] - [indirect return (restaurants, bars etc.)]
It's not going to be as simple as "we get more direct and indirect return" if we also have more expensive aquisition and development. I'd bet a fiddy that it costs less to do construction at Penrith than Moore Park, and that on top of the cheaper land costs in the beginning means that you might wind up with a more viable stadium over the long term at the 'ruff than the SFS.
Tricksy little factors apply as well - people *can* drive to outer suburban stadiums, and really can't to city grounds. If crowds are smaller, the ground can be smaller -> less maintenance cost. Noise and traffic issues might be less, so you might get away with more events, and more events = more paydays.
Over the life of both stadia, consider [cost of land aquisition] + [cost of development] - [direct return (tickets, catering, pourage etc.)] - [indirect return (restaurants, bars etc.)]
It's not going to be as simple as "we get more direct and indirect return" if we also have more expensive aquisition and development. I'd bet a fiddy that it costs less to do construction at Penrith than Moore Park, and that on top of the cheaper land costs in the beginning means that you might wind up with a more viable stadium over the long term at the 'ruff than the SFS.
Tricksy little factors apply as well - people *can* drive to outer suburban stadiums, and really can't to city grounds. If crowds are smaller, the ground can be smaller -> less maintenance cost. Noise and traffic issues might be less, so you might get away with more events, and more events = more paydays.
- Egan
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Re: New NQL Stadium
It depends on whether its part of a strategy to increase the size and growth of the CBD rather than continuing urban sprawl. Crowd attendance inadvertently increases due to the other facilities around the stadium, the denser population.dibo wrote:Compare the benefits another way:
Over the life of both stadia, consider [cost of land aquisition] + [cost of development] - [direct return (tickets, catering, pourage etc.)] - [indirect return (restaurants, bars etc.)]
It's not going to be as simple as "we get more direct and indirect return" if we also have more expensive aquisition and development. I'd bet a fiddy that it costs less to do construction at Penrith than Moore Park, and that on top of the cheaper land costs in the beginning means that you might wind up with a more viable stadium over the long term at the 'ruff than the SFS.
Tricksy little factors apply as well - people *can* drive to outer suburban stadiums, and really can't to city grounds. If crowds are smaller, the ground can be smaller -> less maintenance cost. Noise and traffic issues might be less, so you might get away with more events, and more events = more paydays.
We are talking about inner city Townsville on (Government land?), using some of the unusued railway land.
I am far from being a capital city only stadium fan (eg my support of Thomsons Lake as the best site for a stadium in Perth, particularly due to the costs of Perth CBD sites and the fact you had a greenfields site with all the infrastructure benefits of an inner city venue. ).
But I can see why its in the Government's interest in Queensland.
- dibo
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Re: New NQL Stadium
I forgot to mention opportunity cost. You can't build a bunch of high rises and high-value commercial property on the fringes but you can in the burbs. The high rise and commercial property itself generates a lot of income that should be counted alongside any multiplier effects of the burb dome. The alternative - a shopping centre or housing estate in the burbs alongside a city stadium may get nowhere near the multipliers.
All this said - I much prefer going to city grounds. Getting out to bumfuck to go to a game annoys me, but I'm just trying to make the point that 'economics' can be harnessed to 'prove' all sorts of things.
All this said - I much prefer going to city grounds. Getting out to bumfuck to go to a game annoys me, but I'm just trying to make the point that 'economics' can be harnessed to 'prove' all sorts of things.
- Egan
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Re: New NQL Stadium
So the opportunity cost of what it is being used at present is much better than plonking a stadium there?dibo wrote:I forgot to mention opportunity cost. You can't build a bunch of high rises and high-value commercial property on the fringes but you can in the burbs. The high rise and commercial property itself generates a lot of income that should be counted alongside any multiplier effects of the burb dome. The alternative - a shopping centre or housing estate in the burbs alongside a city stadium may get nowhere near the multipliers.
All this said - I much prefer going to city grounds. Getting out to bumfuck to go to a game annoys me, but I'm just trying to make the point that 'economics' can be harnessed to 'prove' all sorts of things.
As I said the reports for Adelaide Oval compared the stimulus to the economy as significantly higher for the inner city site, compared to West Lakes.
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Re: New NQL Stadium
Egan is generally right, although the economics of a big city (even Adelaide) may not necessarily apply to Townsville. Firstly they have to get the bums on seats. For big cities, the CBD location provides a lot of the transport options. In Townsville it won't, just as many people will drive their cars to the venue as they do to the current one. And it's likely parking will be substantially more difficult. How many people work in the Townsville CBD? A few thousand? So in terms of access, it's possible that an inner city venue might actually be less accessible. Which is something that isn't the case for Adelaide Oval (or any other major city CBD stadium), where the CBD is used to handling large crowds of people every day.
The 2nd issue is the number of restaurants & bars that are around. I've got no idea about the area in question, but being a much smaller city that isn't the tourism hub that Cairns is, i'd be surprised if it had that many in the area. Maybe someone can elaborate. But the number of events held at the venue probably won't be enough to warrant stadium specific venues opening up, i.e a bar opening just because the stadium is there.
The 2nd issue is the number of restaurants & bars that are around. I've got no idea about the area in question, but being a much smaller city that isn't the tourism hub that Cairns is, i'd be surprised if it had that many in the area. Maybe someone can elaborate. But the number of events held at the venue probably won't be enough to warrant stadium specific venues opening up, i.e a bar opening just because the stadium is there.
- the crow
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Re: New NQL Stadium
It's north Queensland....all you need is bundy rum and xxxx......and you have a viable pub.
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Re: New NQL Stadium
Supersaver: strong economic case for CBD stadium
BUILDING a new superstadium and convention centre in the CBD is expected to cost about $300 million, only slightly more than what is needed to repair Townsville's ageing sporting and convention facilities.
It comes as the CBD superstadium and convention centre push received strong backing from the Townsville community, with a survey finding the majority of locals want the proposal turned into a reality.
The survey, which was completed by an independent consultant, found 76.5 per cent of respondents wanted the superstadium and convention centre to be built in the CBD.
The Bulletin understands building the tailor-made facility in the CBD would cost about $300 million. However, the estimated cost of refurbishing the western stand at 1300 SMILES Stadium is about $100 million, while the replacement cost of a new convention centre was estimated at $143 million and rated a more cost-effective option than fixing up the current facility to an international standard.
North Queensland Cowboys chief executive Peter Jourdain said he was worried ongoing construction at the club's home ground could dramatically decrease the revenue from ticket sales.
"We have been told that the western stand could be out of action for up to two years if it were upgraded, which would be a financial disaster for us," Mr Jourdain said.
"And why would you spend all that money and still have three other stands without any shelter from the rain?
"Building a new combined stadium and convention centre in the CBD would be good for our club, the Crocodiles (basketball club) and the whole city."
Townsville Enterprise chief executive David Kippin said the feasibility study for the superstadium is currently being worked on and is expected to highlight the ongoing maintenance savings possible with a combined facility.
"If you were to try to repair or refurbish both (the football stadium and the entertainment and convention centre) it would really be a case of throwing good money after bad," he said.
"There are likely to be substantial savings in terms of on-going maintenance if we build a new shared facility."
Mr Kippin said a delegation would head to Canberra to lobby both sides of politics on the benefits of the proposal, despite the feasibility study not being complete.
He said the superstadium project would bring great advantages to the region's indigenous athletes.
"The bulk of the nation's indigenous disadvantage is in Northern Australia, where Townsville is the largest city, and it's the logical location for the stadium and indigenous sport centre," Mr Kippin said.
Tourism Minister Jann Stuckey was in Townsville yesterday meeting with Townsville Enterprise to discuss a range of issues including the superstadium.
Ms Stuckey said Townsville was still in line to host basketball games as part of the 2018 Gold Coast Commonwealth Games.
"We have had meetings with cabinet members and Townsville Mayor (Jenny Hill) and councillors, so it is on our radar," she said.
http://www.townsvillebulletin.com.au/ar ... _news.html
- the crow
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Re: New NQL Stadium
stadiums and convention centres are a good mix, sharing in back of house facilities kitchens etc...
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Re: New NQL Stadium
There's a 25,000 seat stadium proposed 13km north of Cairns as part of the Arquis resort development.
aquisgreatbarrierreefresort.com
aquisgreatbarrierreefresort.com
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Re: New NQL Stadium
Wow - 2 x 25,000 seat theatres.
If they can't even eliminate typos on their website, I don't hold out much hope for this idea ever getting off the ground.
If they can't even eliminate typos on their website, I don't hold out much hope for this idea ever getting off the ground.
- the crow
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Re: New NQL Stadium
^ WOW....Chinese and North Koreans would be jelous of that.
Are there a lot of happy clappers up there?
Are there a lot of happy clappers up there?