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dibo
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Post by dibo »

Egan wrote:The economic benefits of making sure the Force survive make it a priority as a stadium issue in WA.
what exactly are they?

i simply don't see keeping sports teams going as an economic priority for governments, because i'm not even close to convinced you can stimulate the economy significantly simply by having a rugby franchise. and for that matter, in WA, what the hell do you need yet more economic stimuli for? i'd have thought a dampener would be more appropriate, else your property market will bubble away even more ridiculously and you're going to create (more) serious inflation problems.

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Egan
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Post by Egan »

Well now I am going on a tangent, true Inflation in Western Australia is going rampant, but we judge inflation on a national level and thus the Reserve Bank will judge whether rate rises happen or not and it is not all the State Government's work of the expansionary economic policy, which I will then explain why the Force are a necessary economic tool for long term growth in economic performance once the mining boom goes down and how it works in with the strategy of trying to boost tourism through hosting sporting events...which is the key reason behind the Hopman Cup, is the sort of exposure this competition gets into many markets...which is justifying the expense.

But let me first get started on the expansionary policies being implemented federally.

1 - Federal Government actively caimpainging to open up another mining industry in an already heavily heated mining market - eg Uranium. Which currently Carpenter has stated he will not allow Uranium Mining even if the policy is changed federally. This is the first linkage of expansionary policy on federal level but probably coincidentally a Carpenter Policy that is slowing growth.

2 - The tax cuts last year by the Federal Government had a huge impact on the capital of the growing wealth of the middle class in Perth, which is increasing at rapid rates and with greater wealth, for those with skills. Probably to the stage where our upper class has doubled in size in the last 5 years, with the exponential wages being delivered to people of any age wanting to work in the mining industry - tax cuts help this and the expansionary policy was used as a key reason why interest rates went up following the tax cuts.

These two factors show the Federal Government also has to take some responsibility in the sort of over-heated economy that is WA.

Now I am going to explain the issues where the state has tried to limit spending in the past year, but deliver necessary infrastructure that will try and give the economic benefit to those in regions that are not experiencing the level of boom that the mining regions and the City/Western Suburbs of Perth.

It is a two speed economy that is trying to be allieviated through social infrastructure and creating better transport link to hubs which have employment shortages.

The Mandurah Railway that had 2 billion dollars spent on it which will give people fast access into the city and allieviate the higher then the rest of the metropolitan region's unemployment. Around 5-6% and encourage those who want retail jobs to go where there is real shortages in the City and Western Suburbs.

The Peel Deviation also is necessary infrastructure as is the Fiona Stanley Hospital commitment, as is the other massive infrastructure projects to be delivered in the regional areas including the Albany Performing Arts Centre.

But the Government does try and stop the expansionary policy.

1 - It has programmed with all the increasing revenue that has come up above Budget forecasts to reduce state debt - A policy which is probably the biggest softening a government can do to an economy.

2 - It has not delivered the tax cuts demanded by the community and the influential real estate lobby...and Langoulant for the Chamber of Commerce's continual seeking of reducing stamp duty and land tax.

At the end of the day, the private industry is investing millions of dollars in construction and projects, jobs are plentiful and job shortages are hitting hard...but the State Government are not ruthlessly going on an expansionary policy, it does not help with Federal Government policy, namely the last tax cuts.

Thus now I get back to you about how the Western Force need to be encouraged to remain in Perth and as part of the economic policy of increasing revenue through tourism, a long lasting economic delivery rather then this short term economic boom (one day China will not be able to keep the level of infrastructure up).

Thus the Force are an integral aspect of the State Government's policy of having maintained international coverage of their city into overseas markets. Recent statistics showed that Perth had decreased international visitors but had an increasing domestic tourism market.

The prospect is that tourism is a longer lasting economic delivery, which the Force achieves by competing in an international tournament that taps into markets of considerable interest in New Zealand, South Africa and England.

Which is unlike Aussie Rules, A-League, NBL...and the rest of the domestic competitions.

And for this reason it is in the long term interest, to keep the Force in Perth and to develop a 30,000 seat facility.

Even with the inflation in Perth spiralling out of control, through a mixture of Federal Government policy and a direct result of increasing revenue of people flying back from the mines, impacting on the growth of job opportunities as people spend their money.

Sorry for the long rant guys :lol:

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Simmo79
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Post by Simmo79 »

Prove it

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quidgybo
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Post by quidgybo »

Prove that he's sorry for the long rant? What more do you want, a box of chocolates and flowers?!?

Leigh.

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Simmo79
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Post by Simmo79 »

he could try and prove his assertion that Western Force deserves public funding for a stadium because they generate enough economic activity.

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Egan
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Post by Egan »

Just read any public statement from any WA Government minister and their priorities to get international audiences tuning into events that are from Perth.

The Hopman Cup has a 320 million dollar stadium being built and is getting around $80 million dollars just for a retractable roof, such is the government's desire to see the city mentioned into the global market.

The Force have more international exposure and will share the stadium with other tenants.

I can not be stuffed, nor care that much about the debate to start doing a research project to justify my claims.

So Simmo, you win if it needs to be justified from my initial analysus:wink:

But the reasoning I gave, was the same reasoning the State Government had of seeking the Red Bull Air Race and the decision to not fund Rally Australia - It looks at sporting events, at how much money is returned by the amount invested.

Which for the Force, would be significant, although I doubt a study has taken place...thus it is just an Egan hypothesis.

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hot_dogma
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Post by hot_dogma »

This is so the 'Bread not Circuses' debate in Victoria of the mid-90's... :hand:

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dibo
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Post by dibo »

Egan wrote:The Hopman Cup has a 320 million dollar stadium being built and is getting around $80 million dollars just for a retractable roof, such is the government's desire to see the city mentioned into the global market.

The Force have more international exposure and will share the stadium with other tenants.
bollocks. simply on a competing nations basis:
Spain
India
Czech Republic
Croatia
Russia
France
USA

shits all over

South Africa
New Zealand

most of whom already know where perth is.
Egan wrote:But the reasoning I gave, was the same reasoning the State Government had of seeking the Red Bull Air Race and the decision to not fund Rally Australia - It looks at sporting events, at how much money is returned by the amount invested.

Which for the Force, would be significant, although I doubt a study has taken place...thus it is just an Egan hypothesis.
maybe it also had to do with the air race being cheaper to run and kept people close to the business community that is best suited to benefiting from such events? :wink: an air race over the river beats the hell out of a rally through the forestry tracks for attractiveness to tourists (in particular the wife and kids, for whom being pelted with flying gravel is less pleasant than watching the pretty aeroplanes).

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Egan
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Post by Egan »

an air race over the river beats the hell out of a rally through the forestry tracks for attractiveness to tourists (in particular the wife and kids, for whom being pelted with flying gravel is less pleasant than watching the pretty aeroplanes).
There was a city round with around 8-10,000 per night going to Gloucester Park, for the super-stage - Was boring as anything the night I went.

bollocks. simply on a competing nations basis:
Spain
India
Czech Republic
Croatia
Russia
France
USA

shits all over
How much has the government invested in the Force to get every away fan coming to Perth specifically for the Force forever.

A 1.5 million dollar loan.

And probably around 100 million dollar upgrade to MES.

Value for dollar, Force would be an overwhelming winner over the Hopman Cup, which is once a year.

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dibo
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Post by dibo »

Egan wrote:
bollocks. simply on a competing nations basis:
Spain
India
Czech Republic
Croatia
Russia
France
USA

shits all over
How much has the government invested in the Force to get every away fan coming to Perth specifically for the Force forever.

A 1.5 million dollar loan.

And probably around 100 million dollar upgrade to MES.

Value for dollar, Force would be an overwhelming winner over the Hopman Cup, which is once a year.
all the away supporters... yeah, i'm sure there are heaps. none of them live in perth at all (i realise this is equally true of the hopman cup, but given there are no data available i'm perfectly happy to spout shite, in keeping with most arguments about the economic benefits of hosting sports teams/events).

quite simply, i'd be surprised if the force create $101.5 million in extra revenue for the state of WA. for starters, how long would it take for the force to turn over that much cash? 10 years or so?

the state would be better off going to the bank if they want to invest in greater economic outputs and earn a guaranteed 6.25%. after 10 years (assuming rates stay the same) we're looking at $175 million i don't reckon the force will turn that over in that time.

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Post by yob »

Egan wrote:Well now I am going on a tangent, true Inflation in Western Australia is going rampant, but we judge inflation on a national level and thus the Reserve Bank will judge whether rate rises happen or not and it is not all the State Government's work of the expansionary economic policy, which I will then explain why the Force are a necessary economic tool for long term growth in economic performance once the mining boom goes down and how it works in with the strategy of trying to boost tourism through hosting sporting events...which is the key reason behind the Hopman Cup, is the sort of exposure this competition gets into many markets...which is justifying the expense.

But let me first get started on the expansionary policies being implemented federally.

1 - Federal Government actively caimpainging to open up another mining industry in an already heavily heated mining market - eg Uranium. Which currently Carpenter has stated he will not allow Uranium Mining even if the policy is changed federally. This is the first linkage of expansionary policy on federal level but probably coincidentally a Carpenter Policy that is slowing growth.

2 - The tax cuts last year by the Federal Government had a huge impact on the capital of the growing wealth of the middle class in Perth, which is increasing at rapid rates and with greater wealth, for those with skills. Probably to the stage where our upper class has doubled in size in the last 5 years, with the exponential wages being delivered to people of any age wanting to work in the mining industry - tax cuts help this and the expansionary policy was used as a key reason why interest rates went up following the tax cuts.

These two factors show the Federal Government also has to take some responsibility in the sort of over-heated economy that is WA.

Now I am going to explain the issues where the state has tried to limit spending in the past year, but deliver necessary infrastructure that will try and give the economic benefit to those in regions that are not experiencing the level of boom that the mining regions and the City/Western Suburbs of Perth.

It is a two speed economy that is trying to be allieviated through social infrastructure and creating better transport link to hubs which have employment shortages.

The Mandurah Railway that had 2 billion dollars spent on it which will give people fast access into the city and allieviate the higher then the rest of the metropolitan region's unemployment. Around 5-6% and encourage those who want retail jobs to go where there is real shortages in the City and Western Suburbs.

The Peel Deviation also is necessary infrastructure as is the Fiona Stanley Hospital commitment, as is the other massive infrastructure projects to be delivered in the regional areas including the Albany Performing Arts Centre.

But the Government does try and stop the expansionary policy.

1 - It has programmed with all the increasing revenue that has come up above Budget forecasts to reduce state debt - A policy which is probably the biggest softening a government can do to an economy.

2 - It has not delivered the tax cuts demanded by the community and the influential real estate lobby...and Langoulant for the Chamber of Commerce's continual seeking of reducing stamp duty and land tax.

At the end of the day, the private industry is investing millions of dollars in construction and projects, jobs are plentiful and job shortages are hitting hard...but the State Government are not ruthlessly going on an expansionary policy, it does not help with Federal Government policy, namely the last tax cuts.

Thus now I get back to you about how the Western Force need to be encouraged to remain in Perth and as part of the economic policy of increasing revenue through tourism, a long lasting economic delivery rather then this short term economic boom (one day China will not be able to keep the level of infrastructure up).

Thus the Force are an integral aspect of the State Government's policy of having maintained international coverage of their city into overseas markets. Recent statistics showed that Perth had decreased international visitors but had an increasing domestic tourism market.

The prospect is that tourism is a longer lasting economic delivery, which the Force achieves by competing in an international tournament that taps into markets of considerable interest in New Zealand, South Africa and England.

Which is unlike Aussie Rules, A-League, NBL...and the rest of the domestic competitions.

And for this reason it is in the long term interest, to keep the Force in Perth and to develop a 30,000 seat facility.

Even with the inflation in Perth spiralling out of control, through a mixture of Federal Government policy and a direct result of increasing revenue of people flying back from the mines, impacting on the growth of job opportunities as people spend their money.

Sorry for the long rant guys :lol:
What the f**k are you on about.

Wally
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Post by Wally »

dibo wrote:
Egan wrote:The Hopman Cup has a 320 million dollar stadium being built and is getting around $80 million dollars just for a retractable roof, such is the government's desire to see the city mentioned into the global market.

The Force have more international exposure and will share the stadium with other tenants.
bollocks. simply on a competing nations basis:
Spain
India
Czech Republic
Croatia
Russia
France
USA

shits all over

South Africa
New Zealand

most of whom already know where perth is
I'm sorry but the Super 14 has much more international appeal than the World Cup. It's shown on every major cable and satellite television in the northern hemisphere, never mind the southern.

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dibo
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Post by dibo »

Wally wrote:
dibo wrote:
Egan wrote:The Hopman Cup has a 320 million dollar stadium being built and is getting around $80 million dollars just for a retractable roof, such is the government's desire to see the city mentioned into the global market.

The Force have more international exposure and will share the stadium with other tenants.
bollocks. simply on a competing nations basis:
Spain
India
Czech Republic
Croatia
Russia
France
USA

shits all over

South Africa
New Zealand

most of whom already know where perth is
I'm sorry but the Super 14 has much more international appeal than the World Cup. It's shown on every major cable and satellite television in the northern hemisphere, never mind the southern.
you might wanna, you know, read the posts you're replying to. :P

Nines
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Post by Nines »

Egan wrote:.

And for this reason it is in the long term interest, to keep the Force in Perth and to develop a 30,000 seat facility.
They rejected the MES proposal for Subiaco .
They rejected Subiaco for the WACA .
Now they're rejecting the WACA .
It seems to me they just want to run interference on the
WA super stadium project .

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Egan
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Post by Egan »

They rejected the MES proposal for Subiaco .
They rejected Subiaco for the WACA .
Now they're rejecting the WACA .
It seems to me they just want to run interference on the
WA super stadium project .
Totally inaccurate, read the million threads and you will see the Force's position has been a rectangular stadium, it will just not move into something that has a capacity less then 30,000.

The Government wants the Force to accept something between 22-25,000.

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